[Football] Discuss our current strategy for defending corners....

[Papa Lazarou]

From another thread.... worth debating in isolation

How would you setup to defend corners, as something's not working?

Quote Originally Posted by goldstone

Our policy of defending corners with all ten outfield players back is clearly not working well enough. So time to do what we should always be doing, leave at least one, maybe two players on/near the halfway line ready for a breakaway when the ball is cleared. And forcing the opposition to leave two or three players back in their own half. Surely a less crowded penalty is a benefit to the defending team.


Quote Originally Posted by Bwian


This appears to be the popular approach to defending corners. Only a couple of clubs leave 1 or 2 players on the halfway line. For the likes of The Albion this tactic means the ball is cleared (hopefully) but comes straight back at us. The likes of Man City and Liverpool have players with incredible pace to chase the clearance so it isn't such an issue for them. We have nobody with enough pace to chase down a clearance-especially if they are on the goal line like AK seems to be assigned to be.

Still, what do I know?

What is being done right now isn't working effectively so why not try something different, even if only for a couple of games?

Quote Originally Posted by Springal

It’s so annoying. Hughton even got asked about it at the fans forum and he said he wouldn’t change it

It annoys me as well. Look at it logically. If we were to put 1 player on the half way line when defending corners, the opposition would feel obliged to put 2 defenders back there to cover him, especially is it's some fast like Knockaert. This immediately gives us a numerical advantage in the box.

Take it stage further, why not put 2 or 3 up there? Yes, it limits our players in OUR box, but we'd only put the players on the halfway line that are less useful defending corners. So, let's say for arguments sake we decide to put 2 up front. I'd chose Knockaert and probably March/Izquierdo, both shorter than average but if we clear the ball will be able to out pace most defenders. This will then force a minimum of 3 defenders back there. This clears space in the box, and leaves only the players best suited to defending corners back there.

Win / Win.

It seems higher risk, but it removes the crowding that stops Dunk / Duffy / Ryan getting a run at the ball, plus it immediately gives us a numerical advantage, plus the opposition have to work out which players to drop back to cover.

This is a problem many have identified. And its simply down to the maths.

If we leave two players around the halfway line when we are defending set pieces, the opposition has to leave probably three players back to cover. That means they have six in the box. If we cram eleven players in the box, they can then have all of their outfield players in attacking positions.

6 v 9 or 10 v 11?

If we win the first header, the ball invariably falls to an opposing player and they are still on the attack and keeping us under pressure. We never seem to have the "out ball".

And in any event, the number of goals we are conceding from set pieces shows that the tactic of having all 11 players in the box is not working. And I find the ..is it arrogance...of refusing to change something that is clearly not working somewhat disturbing.

I've said this for many seasons.

Shirley leaving someone with pace in the centre circle, who's not the tallest so they aren't needed to defend aerially, such as AK, SB or Izquierdo, ties up a couple opposing players and gives us more opportunities to counter attack.

Not all PL teams defend set pieces with all 11 back.

 

[Stat Brother]

We're defending them?

Everyday is a school day.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

We're defending them?

Everyday is a school day.

I think the argument, at least mine is that by 'over defending' we're making it harder for the defenders to do their job, and also we have no outlet, allowing opposition to push right up into our half, meaning even if we clear the corner, they're back on the attack immediately and likely to get another corner straight away.

We do seem to give away corners in clusters.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It would help if the majority of our defenders kept their eye on the ball while it is in flight.

 

[A1X]

Our current strategy for defending corners...

 

[raymondo]

Leave two short, fast players on the halfway line.
Put a tall player on the post.
Attack the ball rather than the players...Bruno please take note... [surely the height of Duffy, Dunk, Stephens, Propper (or Goldson, Huenemaier)] is enough to defend our box?].
Try Krul and give Ryan a break from the firing line.
Bring Schelotto on for corners instead of Bruno
Make the coaches do their flipping jobs better

 

[Mellotron]

I think the argument, at least mine is that by 'over defending' we're making it harder for the defenders to do their job, and also we have no outlet, allowing opposition to push right up into our half, meaning even if we clear the corner, they're back on the attack immediately and likely to get another corner straight away.

We do seem to give away corners in clusters.

I think also psychologically it gives the impression we are shit scared of the other team, even if we're not.

 

[Chinman3000]

Close your eyes and jump?

 

[RandyWanger]

We're also shit at taking them. So there must be a correlation, CH said in an interview after WBA that we've done more work on corners this past week than the whole of the season (or words to that effect) but, if in training, the corners coming in are shit, how are we going to learn to defend a decent corner?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Indeed, hard to work out what is worse currently, our defending of corners or attacking ones.

Both need a little tweaking.

 

[Machiavelli]

Thanks for posting this thread, and that's an interesting 'debate' (which I've placed in scare quotes, because there doesn't be too much dissensus) which I hadn't really thought about.
Two things:
-- the first relates to [MENTION=22135]rippleman[/MENTION]'s comment, about Einstein and his definition of madness: something quite clearly has to change, what that is I don't feel entirely qualified to suggest
-- the second is an attempted argument against the suggestion (and I'm not defending this position, merely stating it) of keeping players up the field: I'm sure I've heard CH say that it's not where the players are positioned that's important, it's how you break. One example springs to mind of late, and that was Izquierdo's 90 yard run against Bournemouth. Now Bournemouth were losing at that stage, but they'd really pushed up the pitch for that corner, with their least advanced players half way into our own half.

 

[Machiavelli]

We're also shit at taking them. So there must be a correlation, CH said in an interview after WBA that we've done more work on corners this past week than the whole of the season (or words to that effect) but, if in training, the corners coming in are shit, how are we going to learn to defend a decent corner?

With you all the way on this. Someone said that the last goal we've scored from a corner was Murray against Birmingham. In 2016. Both Huddersfield's and West Brom's first goals were scored from near post flick-ons. I really can't recall us doing this at all this season.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Like others have said, it clearly isn't working. It's also further proof that man to man marking often isn't the answer.

I agree re the point everyone is making about leaving at least one man higher up. I'd also consider man marking the two or three biggest threats and then zonal marking key areas to give ourselves the best chance of dealing with all outcomes and parts of the box.

 

[fleet]

I have been watching how other teams do it in contrast to us. They do not seem to hold onto the other sides players. We concentrate on their players and ignore the ball, then we end up losing the player and the ball at the critical time!

 

[Mellotron]

dissensus.

Thank you for teaching me a great new word today.

 

[Perry Milkins]

Bring Schelotto on for corners instead of Bruno

Ray - we are not yet running the game like NFL.

 

[Greavsey]

As much as I like Ryan for his excellent shot stopping and ability to come off best with one on ones i think he's unfortunately the cause of our instability at corners.

The defenders don't have confidence that he can come through a sea of players to claim the cross, so we are entirely reliant on Dunk or Duffy heading the ball away, a lot of pressure on them given the top level delivery into the box that we are now coming up against.

Is the solution to change Ryan for Krul? Not sure, we've still not conceded that many goals in comparison to other teams around us in the league, and would be massively harsh on Ryan imho for his all round play.

 

[Frankie]

 

[ROSM]

Having seen the angle from behind the goal for west broms first, it seems that duffy jumped in the middle with limited conviction and the ball was headed over him at the near post. At the back post, dunk neither attacked the ball nor was looking for the man coming in. Murray didnt go with evans either.

As for the second goal, dawson seemed to want it more.

So to summarise we have too many men in the box and theyre confusing each other as well as giving us no outlet. We also need to ensure that murray, hemed, izquerdo, propper and stephens are clear on which of them are marking and which are attacking. Duffy and dunk need to make the same decision. Who holds and who attacks the ball

 

[Blue3]

Corners need to go back to basics currently don't put a player on either post this puts to much pressure on Ryan to cover the whole goal from shots at very close range, plus we don't always leave a fast player high upfield to tie up a couple of defenders, finally we only ever have three players on the pitch at any one time that are regarded as being good in the air.

CH can only work with what he has as such he can't change the formation from the one he favours as its keeping goal differance sensible and might just keep us up at the end of the season, nor can CH make players taller or dramatically improve their heading ability but what CH can do is protect the posts and keep a player up top