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[Football] Discuss our current strategy for defending corners....
- Thread starter Papa Lazarou
- Start date
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Bruno looking at the ball and in the direction the ball is being delivered from would be a good start, rather than instead wrestling the player he's marking
If that's correct it is a pretty damming indictment of his training regime. We were always going to struggle this year playing at the margins, so you'd have thought the coaching staff would've wanted to maximise our effectiveness wherever they could and set pieces is a good place to start.
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
- Thread starter
- #24
But he's not very good in the air, so he's doing what he feels is most effective. You are right though
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
- Thread starter
- #25
I'd love to see us try 3 players upfield to a degree at some stage.
Not all on the halfway line, but perhaps 1 up there (Knockaert), plus one each 3/4 of the way to half way, but wide. How would the opposition try to defend that?
Not all on the halfway line, but perhaps 1 up there (Knockaert), plus one each 3/4 of the way to half way, but wide. How would the opposition try to defend that?
Bladders
Twats everywhere
But he's not very good in the air, so he's doing what he feels is most effective. You are right though
Its really working well
Standing on one of the posts might be a better option, or looking at the ball, or even just picking his nose.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
I'd leave all 10 on the halfway line. Catch them all offside as the corner is taken.
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
- Thread starter
- #28
Its really working well
Standing on one of the posts might be a better option, or looking at the ball, or even just picking his nose.
Or being one of the players OUTSIDE of the box?
- Aug 8, 2005
- 27,228
I'm not sure whether it is a recent thing or what we have been doing all season but it seems that at West Brom Duffy was used as a free man to just go and head the ball. I.e. he was not marking a man. If we have been doing this all season then we should stop because our best headerer should be on their best headerer? If it's new then maybe it needs working on some more.
A lot though comes down to individual discipline. Bong should not have lost his man for the second for example.
A lot though comes down to individual discipline. Bong should not have lost his man for the second for example.
Arthritic Toe
Well-known member
We also never score from any ourselves - and we should do, given the aerial power we have at our disposal. For some reason we've got the tactics all wrong with corners at both ends. Maybe we could recruit a short term set piece coach.
One thing I've noticed on this (and I know I've gone outside the remit of the OP somewhat), Dunk and Duffy never arrive at speed to head the ball. They are always 'already there' and if they do get their head on the ball it inevitably loops up and over the bar as they're not running onto it.
One thing I've noticed on this (and I know I've gone outside the remit of the OP somewhat), Dunk and Duffy never arrive at speed to head the ball. They are always 'already there' and if they do get their head on the ball it inevitably loops up and over the bar as they're not running onto it.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Dunk did at the weekend and as a result didn't have a clue where Evans was. I am pretty sure he still doesn't.
A couple of players on the posts would help I would think.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
We used to do well from the long deep corners to the far post for Duffy or Dunk to head in or back across.
Had a few early in the season that went close too, but since then we just seem to hit and hope now.
brightonrock
Dodgy Hamstrings
- Jan 1, 2008
- 2,482
There are two reasons we don't leave a player(s) up when defending corners.
1) Statistically, the second phase is the most dangerous from set pieces. While we're leaking goals from set pieces like a sieve at present, across all levels of football the number of goals actuallyl scored from corners is really low - we all get excited when we win one, but in reality it represents a pretty poor opportunity. Having an extra body in the box if/when a second cross comes into the box following a partial clearance, gives us a slight numerical advantage. Every team, when a ball is cleared at least partially away, will push up to try to catch a forward offside, but in doing so, they lose defensive shape and it can cause players to lose their man. In the second or two between pushing up and the ball coming back into the box, it's impossible to take stock and re-allocate a man each to mark.
2) The biggest danger from any set piece is a runner from deep - a forward with a run on a defender with a standing jump, has an advantage for spring and power on the header. By crowding the box with as many bodies as possible, it makes runners from deep less able (in theory) to get that run on a static defender through sheer traffic.
Hughton has answered this before at Fans Forums - and it's not something he's going to change. It's also a moot point that having a player up would have stopped WBA or Huddersfield from getting their goals against us in recent weeks. It was poor marking that caused those goals - not the lack of a player forward, because we didn't win the first ball to be able to make that argument. In both games we lost a runner at the front post, who flicked on to the far post where another runner was unmarked to score. At WBA it was Dunk who stopped and was caught ball watching as his man (Evans) used a blocker and ran around the back unchallenged. For the second, they dummied the near post flick by making the run but delivered to the far post, where Bong didn't get tight to Dawson, who got the run on him and beat him in the air. Leaving Izquierdo or A. N. Other up would not have stopped that.
I was at West Brom and was as frustrated as anybody else by the shambles from corners - we were lucky not to concede from another two when free headers were glanced wide or over. However, it's not as simplistic as "just leave players up" because of the two points above. If we were conceding a lot from never fully vacating the box and a half-cleared set piece coming back in at us, there'd be a valid point to discuss. But right now we aren't successfully tracking runners or winning the initial ball, so whether or not we take a defender out and put him on the half way line is utterly irrelevant. Until we get the basics right and track our men and win the first ball, we could have twenty players on the pitch and we'd still concede from corners.
1) Statistically, the second phase is the most dangerous from set pieces. While we're leaking goals from set pieces like a sieve at present, across all levels of football the number of goals actuallyl scored from corners is really low - we all get excited when we win one, but in reality it represents a pretty poor opportunity. Having an extra body in the box if/when a second cross comes into the box following a partial clearance, gives us a slight numerical advantage. Every team, when a ball is cleared at least partially away, will push up to try to catch a forward offside, but in doing so, they lose defensive shape and it can cause players to lose their man. In the second or two between pushing up and the ball coming back into the box, it's impossible to take stock and re-allocate a man each to mark.
2) The biggest danger from any set piece is a runner from deep - a forward with a run on a defender with a standing jump, has an advantage for spring and power on the header. By crowding the box with as many bodies as possible, it makes runners from deep less able (in theory) to get that run on a static defender through sheer traffic.
Hughton has answered this before at Fans Forums - and it's not something he's going to change. It's also a moot point that having a player up would have stopped WBA or Huddersfield from getting their goals against us in recent weeks. It was poor marking that caused those goals - not the lack of a player forward, because we didn't win the first ball to be able to make that argument. In both games we lost a runner at the front post, who flicked on to the far post where another runner was unmarked to score. At WBA it was Dunk who stopped and was caught ball watching as his man (Evans) used a blocker and ran around the back unchallenged. For the second, they dummied the near post flick by making the run but delivered to the far post, where Bong didn't get tight to Dawson, who got the run on him and beat him in the air. Leaving Izquierdo or A. N. Other up would not have stopped that.
I was at West Brom and was as frustrated as anybody else by the shambles from corners - we were lucky not to concede from another two when free headers were glanced wide or over. However, it's not as simplistic as "just leave players up" because of the two points above. If we were conceding a lot from never fully vacating the box and a half-cleared set piece coming back in at us, there'd be a valid point to discuss. But right now we aren't successfully tracking runners or winning the initial ball, so whether or not we take a defender out and put him on the half way line is utterly irrelevant. Until we get the basics right and track our men and win the first ball, we could have twenty players on the pitch and we'd still concede from corners.
I do wonder if having a 4 foot 7 goalkeeper is a part of our problem from set pieces with him being less inclined to come out to claim the ball when the cross comes in than a taller 'keeper would be. And maybe our taller players feel more need to try to protect him as they know he's not necessarily going to be able to come and claim, which puts them out of position. Not a criticism of him as such, just a theory.
Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
On MOTD Lampard demonstrated how we are leaving gaps in the penalty area for players to run into and attack the ball. I think both of WBA's goals were excellent but there are certainly question marks about some of the other goals we have given away (Bournemouth's second, Stoke's second and Everton's penalty (off a free-kick, not corner, but similar). Those three were all down in part or whole to Bruno which goes back to the discussion about replacing him with Schelotto
dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
First line of defence is not to give them away. We have the third worst record for conceding (and a similarly poor record for getting them).
That said, we’ve just got to stop concentrating on wrestling players with the threat of giving away penalties (Bruno seems to be the worst culprit) and focus on marking areas, with people dedicated to attacking the ball in the various areas of the penalty box. Clearly, what we are doing isn’t working!
That said, we’ve just got to stop concentrating on wrestling players with the threat of giving away penalties (Bruno seems to be the worst culprit) and focus on marking areas, with people dedicated to attacking the ball in the various areas of the penalty box. Clearly, what we are doing isn’t working!
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Did Stockdale ever come for one?
I don't remember him doing much of it, liked his line too much.
mattislost
Active member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 261
Our attacking and defending from corners summarised in one short video
DarrenFreemansPerm
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
West Brom was the first time I’d personally witnessed Duffy as the free man for corners. It didn’t work within 120 seconds, we didn’t take the warning and tried it again on 4 minutes. 1-0. We continued with it. Disappointing.