[Football] Derby docked nine (more) points

[drew]

Coming back to this - There may be as case for Wycombe but if so why did it not materialise until Derby went in to admin? Same for the Boro claim. It is because they were chancing it, they didn't have a leg to stand on in court but knew that a weakened club may be ripe for cash. Fundamentally, this is where they and the EFL are holding Derby over a barrel....

Don't blame Wycombe for chancing it. They've lost £6m in tv money through a relegation that, had Derby submitted their accounts earlier would, as I understand it, have meant a bigger points deduction last year for them.

PoF podcast cited the out of court settlement between West Ham and Sheffield over Tevez as a reason why Wycombe could chance their arm.

 

[Springal]

Sad given what we’ve been through that we aren’t supporting other clubs fans.

I don’t understand why Boro or Wycombe haven’t taken Derby through the courts so far ? And why can’t / couldn’t Derby have taken QPR through whatever process because they lost out in the play off final when QPR failed FFP. Same thing, no?

 

[Albion my Albion]

I've always wondered. Who is Derby's derby partner? That Derby derby will be a pretty dull Derby derby if it hasn't already been played on both teams' pitches. -3 points. Reminds me of temperatures in Canada.

 

[mikeyjh]

Don't blame Wycombe for chancing it. They've lost £6m in tv money through a relegation that, had Derby submitted their accounts earlier would, as I understand it, have meant a bigger points deduction last year for them.

Nah, the accounts in question were submitted a long time ago, the argument was about how they were presented, firstly the panel found in Derby's favour then it was the EFL AND Boro that appealed. No doubt the Boro part of that appeal delayed the process so why not sue them?

The point is though, had they started a legal process prior to admin then fair enough, let the courts decide but that's not what they did, they waited until admin to open this 'claim' in cohorts with Gibson.

 

[mikeyjh]

So all the punishments have now been accepted? No more fighting through the courts?

I wonder how the situation would be different if they had done this in the first place? It sounds like they wouldn't have had the problems with Boro and Wycombe if this were the case.

You obviously feel different but I am struggling to muster any sympathy for a club that gambled with their financial future while circumventing the rules put in place to stop this happening. They went all in on black (with the fans cheering from the sidelines) and it landed on red.

If their intention is to now accept their mistakes, take their punishment and move on from wherever they are at then I am fully behind them. Is this the case?

Edit: I have just reread the petition and note that the writers do seem to want to move on and accept their punishment. My question remains though, are the club happy to do this too? If so I will think about signing.

As I wrote just now, the appeal was from the EFL and Boro, Derby won the original case, bought by the EFL. 100% the punishment has been accepted. 21 points AND have been in a transfer embargo since the autumn of 2020. Honestly, literally nobody is talking about trying to overturn the punishment. It's now a battle to save the club. Even Forest fans have realised that the problem right now in 2022 is the EFL. That's same EFL has a Forest director (and 1 from Boro) making decisions on this and trying Derby sell players on the cheap for nothing to, erm, Forest.

 

[mikeyjh]

Sad given what we’ve been through that we aren’t supporting other clubs fans.

I don’t understand why Boro or Wycombe haven’t taken Derby through the courts so far ? And why can’t / couldn’t Derby have taken QPR through whatever process because they lost out in the play off final when QPR failed FFP. Same thing, no?

1) Quite.

2) Boro/Wycombe know they couldn't win, that's why they struck when Derby went in to admin.

3) The QPR thing has been mentioned, and Villa, the only difference between Derby and a long list of other clubs is that we didn't get any benefit!

 

[Springal]

It's not a good look for Wycombe or Boro really. There was some talk Mike Ashley was mates with Steve Gibson so I guess if anyone can cut a deal with him pre-takeover, it might be him

 

[drew]

Nah, the accounts in question were submitted a long time ago, the argument was about how they were presented, firstly the panel found in Derby's favour then it was the EFL AND Boro that appealed. No doubt the Boro part of that appeal delayed the process so why not sue them?

The point is though, had they started a legal process prior to admin then fair enough, let the courts decide but that's not what they did, they waited until admin to open this 'claim' in cohorts with Gibson.

Weren't they required to resubmit accounts for the years 2015/16/17?

What I agree with is the the crap way this has been handled by the EFL.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I've always wondered. Who is Derby's derby partner? That Derby derby will be a pretty dull Derby derby if it hasn't already been played on both teams' pitches. -3 points. Reminds me of temperatures in Canada.

Derby & Nottingham have a match January 22 at Derby. Maybe they get to 0 points.

 

[Icy Gull]

I was listening to a Derby fan on Talksport who had the very sensible idea of owners having to put up a personal bond for the deficit if clubs overspend. Might concentrate the minds of some of these new club owners and flush out those investing money they don’t personally have.

As it happens I quite like Derby and really feel for their fans

 

[crodonilson]

Got a lot of respect for Derby, their fans travel in massive numbers and are always incredibly loud and passionate.

 

[Springal]

I was listening to a Derby fan on Talksport who had the very sensible idea of owners having to put up a personal bond for the deficit if clubs overspend. Might concentrate the minds of some of these new club owners and flush out those investing money they don’t personally have.

As it happens I quite like Derby and really feel for their fans

Yeah I agree - I guess the case is how much ? And do you stagger it for the lower leagues - but then what happens if promoted etc. but something would be better than the current situation

 

[mikeyjh]

I've always wondered. Who is Derby's derby partner? That Derby derby will be a pretty dull Derby derby if it hasn't already been played on both teams' pitches. -3 points. Reminds me of temperatures in Canada.

There was a Viz letter back in the day, went along the lines of "What a con the merseyside Derby is, Derby never play in it, no wonder Liverpool always win", made me laugh.

 

[mikeyjh]

Weren't they required to resubmit accounts for the years 2015/16/17?

What I agree with is the the crap way this has been handled by the EFL.

Yes, after the EFL appealed the original decision.

Neither them nor 'Boro. At the end of the day we've been punished in accordance with the rules (after appeal), why on earth are the EFL continuing to countenance these claims? What next? Team denied a penalty sues the ref?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sad given what we’ve been through that we aren’t supporting other clubs fans.

I don’t understand why Boro or Wycombe haven’t taken Derby through the courts so far ? And why can’t / couldn’t Derby have taken QPR through whatever process because they lost out in the play off final when QPR failed FFP. Same thing, no?

It’s tricky to know which set of fans to support because the likes of Wycombe and Derby have different interests in this.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I was listening to a Derby fan on Talksport who had the very sensible idea of owners having to put up a personal bond for the deficit if clubs overspend. Might concentrate the minds of some of these new club owners and flush out those investing money they don’t personally have.

As it happens I quite like Derby and really feel for their fans

Or maybe we dispense with owners completely and return the game to the fans ? Maybe I’m a crazy idealist but the running of this sport just gets worse every year.

 

[Icy Gull]

Or maybe we dispense with owners completely and return the game to the fans ? Maybe I’m a crazy idealist but the running of this sport just gets worse every year.

Have you thought of moving to Germany?

Although I am very happy to let TB be the fan who owns the club, we have tried the Derby way with owners and it didn’t work very well

 

[Curious Orange]

I see some DULLARD has been talking about this subject on Colin Murray's Radio 5 show tonight - started just after 23:00 if anyone wants to listen on catch-up.

 

[El Presidente]

I see some DULLARD has been talking about this subject on Colin Murray's Radio 5 show tonight - started just after 23:00 if anyone wants to listen on catch-up.

Surely Derby fans have suffered enough already?

 

[mikeyjh]

I was listening to a Derby fan on Talksport who had the very sensible idea of owners having to put up a personal bond for the deficit if clubs overspend. Might concentrate the minds of some of these new club owners and flush out those investing money they don’t personally have.

As it happens I quite like Derby and really feel for their fans

Sounds good on paper but what happens in this scenario? Do the EFL, who appear to think Boro and Wycombe have a valid claim and just hand over the cash?