[Football] Derby docked nine (more) points

[Badger Boy]

Feel for the normal fans amongst them - Morris is a disgrace and has ruined the club

The money being lavished on the team under Morris was obviously against the rules but I don't really recall hearing too many complaints from the fans. The club is now reaping what it was sewing for many years and getting stuck in League 1 largely serves them right.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

For Derby to stay up from here is, as you'd guess, pretty unlikely . Assuming 50points Champ safety threshold then that means they need a 65-71 point season to have any chance.
Currently they're on track for about 48-50 points with 3 wins and 9 draws from 17 games.
They'd have to step up to nearly 1.8 points a game to get close. Currently they're on 1.05 ppg.

Rumours that Rooney won't hang around if they drop to L1.

Needs an official tracker

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

I personally am pleased by this as i feared that there was a danger some might think the 12 point deduction would be enough . However as Derby were not looking likely to get near the promotion area this season the net result might have been them avoiding relegation by a couple of points instead of 14 .
I hope relegation does indeed happen because what is the point of FFP rules if blatantly breaking them is just a small points deduction akin to a slap on the wrist or a fine , ditto . If the thing to come out of all this is that it makes some people stop and think about the consequence of their actions then that is fine by me .

 

[B-right-on]

I think there is a substantial difference between falling behind due to bureaucratic decisions and performances on the pitch. Point deductions should happen at the beginning of a season, not in the middle of it.

That makes no sense.

It takes time to get all the evidence together and make a decision. So Derby wouldn't get any points deducted now according to your system. What happens if they were to get to the PL? Then they'd have no points deducted.

Even if they finished above the relegation places, how pissed off would you be as a fan of one of the relegated teams knowing that the only reason you got relegated was because some other team were cheating feckers and didn't get penalised for it in that season.

Like the Tevez Wet Sham saga a few years ago. It still rankles with the fans who went down.

It's quite simple, if you don't want to get points deducted mid or end of the season, DON'T FECKING CHEAT.

Simples.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Doesn't feel right to me to pile on additional points deductions once the season's started. Kills the players motivation stone dead and destroys any kind of fan ambition to see their club be the best it can be. It's all a bit rubbish really

 

[Swansman]

That makes no sense.

It takes time to get all the evidence together and make a decision. So Derby wouldn't get any points deducted now according to your system. What happens if they were to get to the PL? Then they'd have no points deducted.

Even if they finished above the relegation places, how pissed off would you be as a fan of one of the relegated teams knowing that the only reason you got relegated was because some other team were cheating feckers and didn't get penalised for it in that season.

Like the Tevez Wet Sham saga a few years ago. It still rankles with the fans who went down.

It's quite simple, if you don't want to get points deducted mid or end of the season, DON'T FECKING CHEAT.

Simples.

In the case of my suggestion they would get points deducted in the Premier League. Optimal? No, and the current system with point deduction was introduced because Leicester "abused" going into administration back in 2004.

The idea was that introducing a point deduction system would encourage clubs to not overspend and not overstretch. It isnt working and the current system is affecting other clubs too much. Maybe rather than deducting points, clubs should perhaps be banned for a number of transfer windows. This would be a more consistent punishment because sometimes the points deducted makes no difference and sometimes they make all the difference. Just a matter of time until there is a situation where the punishment wont even stop a team from getting promoted.

 

[Badger Boy]

Doesn't feel right to me to pile on additional points deductions once the season's started. Kills the players motivation stone dead and destroys any kind of fan ambition to see their club be the best it can be. It's all a bit rubbish really

I wholly disagree. The football club, as an entity, has been fighting against their inevitable punishment for a long time. They've delayed and delayed and delayed but they have finally been stopped and punished. If anything, this gives the players the grounds for greater motivation - to stay up despite all the punishments. If they have that attitude, anyway.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Can they appeal?

 

[schmunk]

Can they appeal?

Yes, but they'll almost certainly fail, c.f. Wigan Athletic.

 

[dadams2k11]

Didn't Birmingham once get done for FFP, and a 9 point deduction, and still survived on last day if I remember correctly.

I'm not suggesting Derby will survive, just that it doesn't always derail, and demotivate players.

 

[schmunk]

Didn't Birmingham once get done for FFP, and a 9 point deduction, and still survived on last day if I remember correctly.

I'm not suggesting Derby will survive, just that it doesn't always derail, and demotivate players.

Yes, but Derby's 9 points are on top of an existing 12 point deduction this season for going into administration. They're on -3 after 17 games...

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

The money being lavished on the team under Morris was obviously against the rules but I don't really recall hearing too many complaints from the fans. The club is now reaping what it was sewing for many years and getting stuck in League 1 largely serves them right.

Disagree. Why would a Derby fan suspect wrong doing if they'd been hoodwinked by the board?


Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[dadams2k11]

Yes, but Derby's 9 points are on top of an existing 12 point deduction this season for going into administration. They're on -3 after 17 games...

That's there tough luck.

 

[Jeremiah]

Could be an interesting League One next year with potentially Derby , Sunderland, Ipswich , Sheff Wed , Portsmouth , Bolton , Charlton .

 

[ac gull]

they can't appeal - have waived right to do this - and withdrawn appeal re the first 12 point deduction

one of the alleged possible purchasers is allegedly a mate of Wayne Rooney agent

though another is linked to former us owner and former chief exec Sam Rush who left in May 2017 when he was sacked

extract from "agreed decision with Football League" is as per below ...

"The Club has now submitted Revised P&S Calculations which will show that the Club’s Adjusted
Earnings Before Tax in the relevant Reporting Periods is as follows:
22.1 3 years up to and including financial year 2016/17 - £46.76m loss, i.e. £7.76m in excess of the
Upper Loss Threshold;
22.2 3 years up to and including financial year 2017/18 - £28.12m loss i.e. £10.88m under the Upper
Loss Threshold;
22.3 3 years up to and including financial year 2018/19 - £50.72m loss i.e. £11.72m in excess of the
Upper Loss Threshold; and
22.4 4 years up to and including financial year 2020/21 - £40.96m loss i.e. £1.96m in excess of the
Upper Loss Threshold.
23. It is also noted that in exercise of its powers under P&S Rule 2.9 and Regulation 16.20, both as a
preliminary measure and to provide a tool for the application of a suspended sanction the EFL required
the Club to submit, agree and adhere to a budget a summary of which is set out in Appendix 1"

they will get another 3 point deduction if fail to follow the agreed budget for rest of current season

 

[lawros left foot]

How ironic that the 2 clubs who were our nemesis in our last 2 play off attempts will, very possibly start next season in League One having not reached the Premier League. It just goes to show, that if you do cheat and spend fortunes on trying to get out of the Championship, (at the right end) you must still spend your dirty lucre wisely.

 

[lawros left foot]

Didn't Birmingham once get done for FFP, and a 9 point deduction, and still survived on last day if I remember correctly.

I'm not suggesting Derby will survive, just that it doesn't always derail, and demotivate players.

Palace survived a 10 point deduction, much to my chagrin.

 

[B-right-on]

In the case of my suggestion they would get points deducted in the Premier League. Optimal? No, and the current system with point deduction was introduced because Leicester "abused" going into administration back in 2004.

The idea was that introducing a point deduction system would encourage clubs to not overspend and not overstretch. It isnt working and the current system is affecting other clubs too much. Maybe rather than deducting points, clubs should perhaps be banned for a number of transfer windows. This would be a more consistent punishment because sometimes the points deducted makes no difference and sometimes they make all the difference. Just a matter of time until there is a situation where the punishment wont even stop a team from getting promoted.

And the massive hundrerds of millions that they get from being promoted to the PL after cheating their way there? That totally outweighs all fines they get. And then if they 'go down' to following seaon then they will only go back down the where they are now, ie: Championship. The idea is that cheating doesnt prosper but cheating your way into the PL and the financial rewards there means it is worth every thing they can do to get there - in their own minds.

A bigger punishment is to go down to L1 and losing fans, smaller gates and teams, losing players, losing sponsiorships. Agan being promoted into the PL means much bigger crowds, more sponsorship funds etc.. and rewards cheating your way there.

Again if they dont like it, dont cheat. Not hard to understand really.

Points deduction is the best way to handle it, along with transfer ban. Otherwise it makes it too easy for them to cheat without enough penatlies imo.

 

[El Presidente]

Can they appeal?

They’ve agreed not to appeal as part of the settlement

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Looking at Rams forums, there is still a healthy amount of Derby fans principally blaming the EFL and/or Covid-19 for this debacle. There seems to be little acknowledgment of them living beyond there means for a number of years dating back to when we were a Championship club. Morris tried to buy his way out of the Championship and ****ed it. This was documented extensively on NSC as they broke the bank for another Vydra or Lawrence. Smashing FFP rules was clearly an option if you look at the success of Bournemouth and Leicester but, they were gambling on getting promotion, Derby lost and then tried every trick in the book of creative accountancy to cheat.

The whataboutry by some Derby fans has got to this sort of level:

“The EFL are disgrace. They say that they want to protect the integrity of the league, but this has done the opposite. It means that we can pick and choose which games to put any effort into, as the chances of staying up are next to zero This means the integrity of the league is damaged, the thing they say they hold so dear.”

This.

Gambling with money you don't have precludes any defense when the bailiffs arrive.