Denmarks apology to muslims.

[London Irish]

I think you will find it is our countries that are being bombed and invaded via immigration on a more regular basis.

Is this dull pandering to the social conservative anti-immigration fuckwits yet another example of your "libertarianism" you deeply confused clown?

 

[enigma]

Is this dull pandering to the social conservative anti-immigration fuckwits yet another example of your "libertarianism" you deeply confused clown?

Apparently you're the confused one.... so says Looney anyway....

 

[chip]

I guess in looney's simple biggoted world it is impossible for anyone to be Danish and Moslem. In his world it is all "us and them," the potting soil of fear and violence. Oh well, why am I not surprised?

Didn't Jesus say words to the effect of, "who is not for me is against me?" And doesn't the Nicene Creed say:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

That seems indivisible, or quite us and them to me. To pretend that Islam is not the same in its aherents view is a form of appeasement that Neville Chamberlain would have been proud of (and, yes I know he was a conservative).

 

[Juan Albion]

Didn't Jesus say words to the effect of, "who is not for me is against me?" And doesn't the Nicene Creed say:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

Jesus would have welcomed those against him with open arms. Huge difference.

 

[chip]

Jesus would have welcomed those against him with open arms. Huge difference.

He would have, but then he is the son of God. However, the point I was making is that Christianity requires us to accept the one true God and seek forgiveness of our sins if we are not to be cast into the eternal lake of fire at the Judgement. In that sense, it is very Us and Them.

 

[London Irish]

He would have, but then he is the son of God. However, the point I was making is that Christianity requires us to accept the one true God and seek forgiveness of our sins if we are not to be cast into the eternal lake of fire at the Judgement. In that sense, it is very Us and Them.

Look, if you're trying to start some Holy crusade against Muslims, can you at least spare Adam El-Abd, who we need on Saturday.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Didn't Jesus say words to the effect of, "who is not for me is against me?" And doesn't the Nicene Creed say:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

That seems indivisible, or quite us and them to me. To pretend that Islam is not the same in its aherents view is a form of appeasement that Neville Chamberlain would have been proud of (and, yes I know he was a conservative).

But Muslims believe in Jesus too - they see him as a one of the most important Prophet rather than the Son of God. They don't believe he died on the cross though. And of course, both religions believe in the same God.

The difference between Islam & Christianity is actually extremely small. Both believe in one God - the same God. They differ on the importance of Jesus, but both recognise him as being significant.

Just trying putting Jesus & Islam in Google & you'll understand how close the two religions are. Until you do that, you cannot quote Jesus with any authority as you don't know his role in Islam. Straight off the Internet:

"Of all the prophets, Jesus is probably the most written about in the Qur'an. Various stories in the Islamic text talk about his miraculous birth, his ministry, his disciples, and the message that he brought to his people. Muslims always speak of Jesus with respect, and "Issa" (the Arabic rendition of his name) is a common given name in the Muslim world.

The Qur'an makes it very clear that Jesus was a prophet, chosen by God to teach his people, but not associated with nor part of God Himself. He performed miracles, by the grace and power of God alone. He of himself could do nothing -- all of his glory pointed back to the One Almighty God.

Additionally, Islam teaches that God is Merciful and forgives all sins, without the need for a Saviour or blood sacrifice of any kind. Therefore, Muslims reject the idea that all of mankind is "saved" by any one creed or sacrifice. In Islam, each person is judged mercifully by God, Who created us and knows our hearts and weaknesses. While Muslims do not feel that their fate in the Hereafter is "guaranteed" (as many Christians would say), they do not despair -- for the Mercy of Allah is without measure.

In the end, Muslims believe that the message Jesus preached was one and the same as the message that all of the prophets brought to their people: Worship Almighty God, and Him Alone. Have faith, and live your life according to that faith."

 

[Juan Albion]

He would have, but then he is the son of God. However, the point I was making is that Christianity requires us to accept the one true God and seek forgiveness of our sins if we are not to be cast into the eternal lake of fire at the Judgement. In that sense, it is very Us and Them.

That might be your understanding of Christianity but it certainly isn't mine as my 'one true God' can be found in many ways (for example, Canadian native peoples' Creator). I am rather more liberal than that fairly conservative definition, although I have no problem with anyone holding that view.

I would also say you are rather taking Jesus' comment out of context. He was not stressing 'us and them' but instead was simply making the point that being a Christian requires a positive effort and commitment and is not something that can be done passively nor by 'not doing the opposite.' In other words, if you are not actively trying to do 'good' (however you define it) then your attitude is not right.

Anyway, no-one is saying there is never two different camps. There are usually at least two sides to any argument and that cannot be denied. But it is all about your attitude to those different to yourself. The point I was making is that in looney's world it is always Danes and Moslems, and never Danish Moslems. He seeks to emphasise the differences and tries to exploit people's fear of anything they don't really understand or is different .

 

[chip]

That might be your understanding of Christianity but it certainly isn't mine as my 'one true God' can be found in many ways (for example, Canadian native peoples' Creator). I am rather more liberal than that fairly conservative definition, although I have no problem with anyone holding that view.

I would also say you are rather taking Jesus' comment out of context. He was not stressing 'us and them' but instead was simply making the point that being a Christian requires a positive effort and commitment and is not something that can be done passively nor by 'not doing the opposite.' In other words, if you are not actively trying to do 'good' (however you define it) then your attitude is not right.

Anyway, no-one is saying there is never two different camps. There are usually at least two sides to any argument and that cannot be denied. But it is all about your attitude to those different to yourself. The point I was making is that in looney's world it is always Danes and Moslems, and never Danish Moslems. He seeks to emphasise the differences and tries to exploit people's fear of anything they don't really understand or is different .

OK, thanks for that, I see where you are coming from now and I take your point. I wouldn't call your theology mainstream though - but nor do you.

I wasn't trying to twist Jesus' words there, it is something I have genuinely puzzled about because its a very powerful expression. I was actually interested to understand where you where coming from. I'm not sure that its the same place as other people who have made the Us & Them observation.

 

[chip]

But Muslims believe in Jesus too - they see him as a one of the most important Prophet rather than the Son of God. They don't believe he died on the cross though. And of course, both religions believe in the same God.

I understand about Jesus and Islam. Some Christians would say that the islamic view is blasphemy or heresey. We could argue about the descendants of Abraham, the role of Ismael etc. In the end, I don't believe that they are talking about the same God. Hence my comments. I also see that a lot of this "Islam is the same as Christianity" is appeasement and does not recognise that there is, in fact, a substantial gulf between them.

 

[The British National Party]

The Official Apology

From Denmark to the Muslim World,simply called "We´re Sorry!





We´re sorry we gave you shelter when war drove you from your home country....



We´re sorry we took you in when others rejected you.....



We´re sorry we gave you the opportunity to get a good education.....



We´re sorry we gave you food and a home when you had non.....



We´re sorry we let you re-unite with your family when your homeland was no longer safe...



We´re sorry we never forced you to work while WE paid all your bills.....



We´re sorry we gave you almost FREE rent,phone,internet,car and school for your 10 kids...



We´re sorry we build you Moskes so you could worship your religion in our Christian land...



We´re sorry we never forced you to learn our language after staying 30 years!....







And so....from all Danes to the entire Muslim world,we just wanna say;



f*** YOU!!




Sounds a bit familiar a lot of this.

At last, someone who can read between the lines. It's about time people took their rose tinted glasses off and faced up to reality, instead of hiding behind the Labour Politically correct machine.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I understand about Jesus and Islam. Some Christians would say that the islamic view is blasphemy or heresey. We could argue about the descendants of Abraham, the role of Ismael etc. In the end, I don't believe that they are talking about the same God. Hence my comments. I also see that a lot of this "Islam is the same as Christianity" is appeasement and does not recognise that there is, in fact, a substantial gulf between them.

They absolutely 100% do believe in the same God. That's a fact - you can't rewrite Islam!

Anyway, I agree with some of what looney says but not the way he says it. It would be like blaming all the Irish for the IRA bombings - just nonsense.

However, if someone doesn't understand the fact that 95% of Islam fits in with Christianity then there's a problem with their arguments

 

[NMH]

Re: Re: Denmarks apology to muslims.

Can't argue with any of that.

Yep, that would be a great way to maintain divisory relations with another culture. "sorry we deliberately got a reaction from you with derisory insults aimed at your spiritual values, but since we don't share the same values, f*** you"

I do realise that the Danes probably didn't make those remarks to the Muslims, but heaping scorn on them is just buying into generalisations and the usual xenophobia that people go to with such ease.


Incidentally, if a national spokesperson said something pleasant, it would probably get either ignored or attributed to that one person.
Why is it that, when a national spokesman says something nasty, it's always "Iran says this to the USA" like it's agreed by a whole country to another whole country??
Ah yes, it's called PROPAGANDA and it's there to manipulate the masses against one another.

NMH say; relax, don't do it.

 

[NMH]

Jesus would have welcomed those against him with open arms. Huge difference.

Indeed, by the nature he was blessed with according to scripture.

However, find hordes of Christians who can actually do that and show that they follow Christ in deed as well as name!

Imagine.

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

Anyway, I agree with some of what looney says but not the way he says it. It would be like blaming all the Irish for the IRA bombings - just nonsense.

Sums it up. What valid points there might well be in Loony or Oceanic's arguments, they ensure they can never be taken seriously by their pathetic generalisations and catch-all statements.

All the time they are constructing their arguments on a level akin to a ten year old, people are just going to dismiss it.

 

[NMH]

It is difficult to seperate individuals from their religions, as that is what they believe in and what their life stands for.

I am an atheist, it doesn't mean that I feel the need to 'preach' my dislike for their beliefs. Whether it be for a reaction or for whatever reason.

Word!

 

[NMH]

this is my point. In a democracy and a civil and free society you demand nothing. You ask ,campaign, debate, vote etc. You dont make threats etc.

Exactley who is doing bin ladens bidding?

You are, because, by fuelling the cycle of hate and misunderstanding, you are responding in exactly the way Al Quadea are trying to provoke.

Worthy of a very big spotters badge, 34064 FC, an excellent response if you don't mind me saying.

 

[looney]

a few points.

I didn't actually right that hence the lack of errors, I posted it for debating purposes for in my veiw even though it is flawed it makes some good points.

Is this dull pandering to the social conservative anti-immigration fuckwits yet another example of your "libertarianism" you deeply confused clown?

Hence I dont need to respond to one of LI's typical snide remarks.

Islam is very different from christianity and only makes about half a dozen references to jesus 2 of which refute the main tenants od Christianity.

1. He died on the cross for our sins.

2. He is the messiah.

Also Isiah is almost totally different from the torah and bible, ie made up.

 

[NMH]

Also Isiah is almost totally different from the torah and bible, ie made up.

What defines 'made up' when we are talking about religious scripture?
I'm not trying to argue for or against any religion - but I'm interested as to what defines any of them as factual - when they all differ in their doctrine.

Partings of seas and walkings on waters require an awful lot of faith in the extraordinary.

I liked Lord Of The Rings though.

 

[aftershavedave]

ahem ahem can we get back to an important oversight please folks?

i think that looney has been well and truly 'owned' on this thread and i'm taking him home for the weekend.

he's cleaning the garden up in the morning, washing the car in the afternoon and dusting on sunday morning.

anybody want him for oddjobs sunday pm?