[Albion] Deniz Undav **Gone To Stuttgart 09/08/24**

[S'hampton Seagull]

Ok, so I'm just catching up on the Undav situation. So what's the deal with a "buy-back" and why does it matter?

My understanding was that we'd loaned him to Stuttgart for the season and we had a clause where Stuttgart would be able to buy him for an agreed £20m, if they want him and pony up the cash (my guess would be that we might be open to taking less if Stuttgart really can't afford it, Undav doesn't want to come "home" and we don't get better offers). So what's the buy-back got to do with anything? My assumption is that the £20m agreement includes a buy-back for some amount of money in excess of £20m that if Stuttgart were to buy him, we could, at some point, buy him back for this amount? But why would we want to do that? He seems to not want to play for us anyway. So it seems unlikely that if we triggered the clause, we'd be able to agree a contract with him anyway. He'd just say no and stay where he is.

If Stuttgart doesn't trigger the £20m option to buy (because they don't want to, or can't afford to and we refuse to budge), then the loan ends, Deniz returns to Brighton, and probably isn't super happy about it. The "buy-back" isn't important here.

I'd love for Deniz to come back and set the Premier League alight like he has in Germany this past season. But if, we whatever reason, he doesn't want to, then there isn't much value in forcing the issue. It's a team game, and it's important that the team actually wants to play.

The buy back is supposedly set at a small amount higher than the buy option Stuttgart have. We are clearly saying we are prepared to exercise our option, meaning realistically Stuttgart need to pay significantly more than €20m to keep him. I guess it's that they can't afford and hence the current impasse.

 

[US Seagull]

The buy back is supposedly set at a small amount higher than the buy option Stuttgart have. We are clearly saying we are prepared to exercise our option, meaning realistically Stuttgart need to pay significantly more than €20m to keep him. I guess it's that they can't afford and hence the current impasse.

Ah, okay. So the argument is that we want more than the previously agreed upon £20m? The idea is that Stuttgart buy for £20m, we immediately buy back for (let's say for arguments sake) £21m and they don't have the player.

If that's the case, that seems a bit problematic. Not least because even if Stuttgart bid their £20m, Deniz has to agree personal terms (i.e. a contract) with them. Then if we come back with £21m to get him back, he would have to agree personal terms with us and he could simply tell us he's not interested. Problem (for Stuttgard and Deniz) solved.

I mean, I guess we could offer him silly wages, way above what Stuttgard are willing to pay, which might get him to sign back up, but I'm not sure paying way over the odds for Deniz when he'd really prefer to be elsewhere is a good strategy. Especially if the idea was to tell him to somebody else for more than £20m, in which case the wages might put off potential bids.

 

[JBizzle]

Ah, okay. So the argument is that we want more than the previously agreed upon £20m? The idea is that Stuttgart buy for £20m, we immediately buy back for (let's say for arguments sake) £21m and they don't have the player.

If that's the case, that seems a bit problematic. Not least because even if Stuttgart bid their £20m, Deniz has to agree personal terms (i.e. a contract) with them. Then if we come back with £21m to get him back, he would have to agree personal terms with us and he could simply tell us he's not interested. Problem (for Stuttgard and Deniz) solved.

I mean, I guess we could offer him silly wages, way above what Stuttgard are willing to pay, which might get him to sign back up, but I'm not sure paying way over the odds for Deniz when he'd really prefer to be elsewhere is a good strategy. Especially if the idea was to tell him to somebody else for more than £20m, in which case the wages might put off potential bids.

It's an odd one. We send someone on loan for a year and if he does well, we essentially have to pay £1m and increase his to get him back?

 

[US Seagull]

It's an odd one. We send someone on loan for a year and if he does well, we essentially have to pay £1m and increase his to get him back?

Right, I remember we had to pay to get Mac Allister back, but that was because we were asking to break the loan agreement.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

It's an odd one. We send someone on loan for a year and if he does well, we essentially have to pay £1m and increase his to get him back?

We only have to pay it if we want to sign him back after they’ve signed him. If they can’t agree a price in the first place or want to pay less than what was pre agreed we will more than likely just say no and pay nothing at all and Undav returns to us.

If they pay the pre agreed value we can then exercise the buy back clause but this is also dependent on Undav then wanting to rejoin us which he doesn’t have to do as he’s a permanent Stuggart player then (he could have agreed to the buy back clause as part of his contract with us but this would have required a new contract being signed and lodged with the FA, when he went on loan, but I don’t think anything has been registered there since his original contract with us).

What I think we are trying to do is get more than the pre agreed £20m from Stuttgart which will in essence be a new agreement without any buy back clause attached.

 

[maltaseagull]

In my opinion he would always be an impact sub. If he was to start, who would give way? And what does he really create in open play?
I would like him to stay as he is great to have as an alternative option.

 

[tigertim68]

In my opinion he would always be an impact sub. If he was to start, who would give way? And what does he really create in open play?
I would like him to stay as he is great to have as an alternative option.

came on for the Germans yesterday, to even be in the squad he must be a good player

 

[maltaseagull]

came on for the Germans yesterday, to even be in the squad he must be a good player

I wasn't saying he wasn't. But when he played for us, he did not look likely to create much. A good finisher though.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

I wasn't saying he wasn't. But when he played for us, he did not look likely to create much. A good finisher though.

Yet the rest of his career he has a decent amount of assists at every level he's played at. 63 assists over 293 career games isn't a bad total. I wouldn't rule out his creativity based on the limited exposure we had to him at the end of the 22-23 season. Of course it's going to be tough to get those assist stats in the PL but maybe the new manager will play a game that suits the creativity he's shown in the rest of his career.

 

[Han Solo]

The whole thing makes no sense at all.

Why would either of Brighton or Stuttgart want to include BOTH the option to sell him and the option to buy him in this loan deal?

Must be wrong because none of the clubs would gain anything from that.

 

[Mr deez]

The whole thing makes no sense at all.

Why would either of Brighton or Stuttgart want to include BOTH the option to sell him and the option to buy him in this loan deal?

Must be wrong because none of the clubs would gain anything from that.

So they have an option to buy, on the proviso we can buy back at a later date at a similar price if he turns out to be a world beater.

It just turns out that means the option to buy isnt a guaranteed option to buy given we can just buy back.

I assume the buy back has to be out of season but that's no problem over the summer.

 

[Justice]

In my opinion he would always be an impact sub. If he was to start, who would give way? And what does he really create in open play?
I would like him to stay as he is great to have as an alternative option.

Is this a serious question? Welbeck played a stack of games last season and managed 4 goals.

 

[maltaseagull]

Is this a serious question? Welbeck played a stack of games last season and managed 4 goals.

And your point is?

 

[B-right-on]

Aren't the reports saying that it's actually more complicated than that? That if Stuttgart pay the fee, we can buy him back for essentially the same fee (slightly more apparently) and then sell him on for more elsewhere. So Stuttgart have to offer us above the fee they originally agreed essentially to make sure that they actually can sign him.

Seems a bit disingenuous of us to say they can buy him for £20m and he does well so we then bump up the price - if that's true.

 

[Justice]

And your point is?

You don’t know?

 

[Justice]

Ah, okay. So the argument is that we want more than the previously agreed upon £20m? The idea is that Stuttgart buy for £20m, we immediately buy back for (let's say for arguments sake) £21m and they don't have the player.

If that's the case, that seems a bit problematic. Not least because even if Stuttgart bid their £20m, Deniz has to agree personal terms (i.e. a contract) with them. Then if we come back with £21m to get him back, he would have to agree personal terms with us and he could simply tell us he's not interested. Problem (for Stuttgard and Deniz) solved.

I mean, I guess we could offer him silly wages, way above what Stuttgard are willing to pay, which might get him to sign back up, but I'm not sure paying way over the odds for Deniz when he'd really prefer to be elsewhere is a good strategy. Especially if the idea was to tell him to somebody else for more than £20m, in which case the wages might put off potential bids.

If the club exercise the buy back clause it allows other clubs to enter the bidding . Basically protects the club if the loan player has a stormer of a season.

 

[Gabbiano]

People go on about buy backs as though the player has no choice in the matter. It makes no difference if we have a buy back but the player isn't interested in coming back.

I think Stuttgart are just trying to play hardball - €20m is not too much money for a side with a CL windfall incoming, plus likely a nice chunk of cash coming in for Guirassy too.

 

[maltaseagull]

You don’t know?

No, I just like typing questions.

 

[Justice]

No, I just like typing questions.

What about answers?

 

[Flounce]

What about answers?

There are more questions than answers in this saga