[Other Sport] Define a Woman

[sully]

I reckon, four pages and then Pit.

Maybe five.

That rather depends on what setting you have for page length, surely?


As to the topic of the thread, it blows my mind trying to find the words to help those who are unclear or who have the wrong genetics for their feelings, so I’m not going to get involved, but will read others thoughts with interest.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I respectfully disagree, it seems entirely the right-biased media who have some sort of mad obsession with gender identity.

I can promise you that this is not a major topic of discussion on the left, where there seems far more focus on cost of living, concerns over the conflict in Ukraine, and the ongoing comedy pratfalls of the modern Conservative Party, who are lurching so far right that fascism could become a centre-right position in British politics if Suella Braverman gets her hands on the keys to 10 Downing Street.

I think the right-biased media’s job is to keep its core vote in a state of perpetual outrage any way it can, that doesn’t mean that the topics it chooses to focus on are those the rest of the world are focusing on, it’s just what they believe will keep its disciples angry.

Insightful and correct in every sentence.

The culture wars are being as much driven by the right as the war in Ukraine is driven by Putin.

 

[BadFish]

Insightful and correct in every sentence.

The culture wars are being as much driven by the right as the war in Ukraine is driven by Putin.

According to this they are being fought by a small minority too.

It seems to me that the right-wing press willfully misrepresents the feelings of the majority in favour of . . .

. . . well in favour of whoever they represent.

 

[Boroseagull]

The eminent Lord Winston was quoted in The Times only yesterday on these very issues, his quote; “We can change our gender. We can do it by mutilating ourselves. We can remove bits of our body and change our shape and so on but you can’t change your sex because that is embedded in your genes in every cell of your body.”

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

You're right. It's not a left/right issue. I should've said that certain sections of the Tory party and their media backers would like to make it a key issue. Not only trans issues but identity politics in general.

There are maybe those on the right who would make it an issue of the right.

For my part, live and let live. We were on holiday in France in June on 4 different campsites. In each one all the showers and toilets were unisex. No problem.

Mrs DiS before she retired was in charge of an educational establishment which made a point of being sympathetic over transgender and similar issues. If people are confused, they need support rather than people trying to force them back in to what might be the wrong boxes.

 

[Live by the sea]

What about people born with a vagina and testes?

A woman is defined by what sex you are born at birth . End of . You can have changes made to your body to make you physically a female but that’s different to being a woman .

 

[Live by the sea]

What about people born with a vagina and testes?

A woman is defined by what sex you are born at birth . End of . You can have changes made to your body to make you physically a female but that’s different to being a woman . I don’t know any woman that likes having to use a unisex toilet . Again bringing in rules that effect a tiny percentage and upset the majority of women . That’s not right or fair .

 

[The Clamp]

A woman is defined by what sex you are born at birth . End of . You can have changes made to your body to make you physically a female but that’s different to being a woman .

Unless someone disagrees then it’s not “end of”.

I have personally never been to a building that as well as having unisex or shared restrooms, didn’t also have separate toilets for men and women. With the exception of some London clubs I frequented in the 00’s.

I’m not saying all buildings have the choice, but I have not been to one that doesn’t. Apart from the clubs I mentioned above.

 

[BadFish]

There are maybe those on the right who would make it an issue of the right.

For my part, live and let live. We were on holiday in France in June on 4 different campsites. In each one all the showers and toilets were unisex. No problem.

Mrs DiS before she retired was in charge of an educational establishment which made a point of being sympathetic over transgender and similar issues. If people are confused, they need support rather than people trying to force them back in to what might be the wrong boxes.

An excellent post.

To me it really isn't an issue. Listen to people, support people if they need it and above all treat people with respect. You might not understand what people are going through, you might choose to continue in your ignorance and close your mind to how they feel. This is of course your right. What I don't get is why people choose to write, post and generally bang on about how other people feel in their bodies (usually without a shred of understanding) and what they choose to do about it? It really makes no sense to me.



Why do others' care so much about how people feel in their bodies that they need to control them is totally beyond me.

 

[BadFish]

A woman is defined by what sex you are born at birth . End of . You can have changes made to your body to make you physically a female but that’s different to being a woman . I don’t know any woman that likes having to use a unisex toilet . Again bringing in rules that effect a tiny percentage and upset the majority of women . That’s not right or fair .

French people?

They have been doing it for years.

 

[Uncle C]

PS if anyone wants to know what defines a woman happy to share a photo of Mrs Crodo, she is very definitely a woman.

OK. I'll call your bluff. Lets see it.

 

[BadFish]

A woman is defined by what sex you are born at birth . End of . You can have changes made to your body to make you physically a female but that’s different to being a woman . I don’t know any woman that likes having to use a unisex toilet . Again bringing in rules that effect a tiny percentage and upset the majority of women . That’s not right or fair .

Unless someone disagrees then it’s not “end of”.

I have personally never been to a building that as well as having unisex or shared restrooms, didn’t also have separate toilets for men and women. With the exception of some London clubs I frequented in the 00’s.

I’m not saying all buildings have the choice, but I have not been to one that doesn’t. Apart from the clubs I mentioned above.

If you want to understand the issue and how people feel about it, I would say that this comment should be the 'beginning of' as it misses the mark in terms of a balanced understanding.

 

[Hugo Rune]

A woman is defined by what sex you are born at birth . End of . You can have changes made to your body to make you physically a female but that’s different to being a woman .

For many, this is a very simple, black or white question. The dumb gammon at 6:40 is representative of this view:
https://youtu.be/LGR_pNAdGqM

The right set-up culture wars for these sorts of people to make them very, very angry.

In reality, it’s very complex. You have to separate gender from biological sex and try and create a balance that respects individual trans rights as well as respecting women’s rights.

What is clear from this clip is that Penny Mordaunt is about to be shredded by the right wing press and the Government backed Truss campaign as she is sympathetic to trans people.

 

[The Clamp]

I’m pretty sure that anywhere that has “unisex” or shared toilets must by law provide separate facilities for those that do not wish to share.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I respectfully disagree, it seems entirely the right-biased media who have some sort of mad obsession with gender identity.

I can promise you that this is not a major topic of discussion on the left, where there seems far more focus on cost of living, concerns over the conflict in Ukraine, and the ongoing comedy pratfalls of the modern Conservative Party, who are lurching so far right that fascism could become a centre-right position in British politics if Suella Braverman gets her hands on the keys to 10 Downing Street.

I think the right-biased media’s job is to keep its core vote in a state of perpetual outrage any way it can, that doesn’t mean that the topics it chooses to focus on are those the rest of the world are focusing on, it’s just what they believe will keep its disciples angry.

Well you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with that study they undertook.

It's easy to find both sides of media who are at it constantly. There's plenty of left leaning women in the feminist space who have issues with trans women in their space. The culture warriors even came up with a new name for them to demonise them.

 

[The Clamp]

If you want to understand the issue and how people feel about it, I would say that this comment should be the 'beginning of' as it misses the mark in terms of a balanced understanding.

Spot on.

If our forefathers had believed in the term “end of”‘, we’d still be locking up homosexuals and segregating different races. A ridiculous phrase.

 

[Eric the meek]

'Define a woman'.

Tell you what. Shall we ask one? Do we actually have any on the forum?

****Looks round inquisitively****

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

In reality, it’s very complex.

Whose reality though?

Wouldn't that reality you speak of be the reality of a small but vocal group of people rather than the majority?

Or are you saying you get to determine what is reality and what isn't?


Isn't this the kind of mindset atheism pushed back against? That people could be forced or coerced into believing in things that their eyes could not see?

 

[The Clamp]

My conclusion is that unless you are the one who has to figure out solutions to women’s refuges, hospital wards etc then how on earth could any of it possibly effect you in a detrimental way? More to the point, how could it bother you?

I’m up for diversity, range, choice for all, colours and accents and all manner of people doing all sorts of things. Jump in I say, we only go round once!

 

[beorhthelm]

I respectfully disagree, it seems entirely the right-biased media who have some sort of mad obsession with gender identity.

simply isnt true. no doubt they cover it, its more as reaction, out of fear of change or unknown. the left media is obsessed with it too, leading the issue along with other identity politics issues. my theory it comes from needing a sense of struggle, something to people engaged in, with the bluring of class they have latched on to smaller groups to be standard bearer for.