She was ejected from the house for one day not ejected from a canon as allegedly was the supreme leaders uncle
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[Politics] Dawn Butler MP
- Thread starter Baldseagull
- Start date
She was ejected from the house for one day not ejected from a canon as allegedly was the supreme leaders uncle
- Jan 3, 2012
- 17,357
The fact that you/we are reacting to it shows she’s doing something right.
Uh_huh_him
Well-known member
- Sep 28, 2011
- 12,138
Is the sad truth.
Politics today is increasingly irrelevant.
people spouting their rhetoric at each other and nothing being done to improve anything.
highflyer
Well-known member
- Jan 21, 2016
- 2,554
A nobody on the internet patronizingly telling a highly successful politician of many years standing what she 'needs to learn'
You sound ridiculous.
Anyway, my view is that Johnson was found to have deliberatelly lied, by the highest court in the country to the Commons, to the Citizens of the UK and to the Queen. So she's on very solid ground. She has stated clearly and publicly what everyone knows to be true but the current, spineless, opposition leaders don't have the balls to say.
Ducking and diving, avoiding answering questions and the use of weasel words by politicians have been normal for a long time in this country. But the Cummings/Johnson strategy of deliberately and knowingly using outright lies to gain and hold on to power and then the refusing to take accountability when caught out has been a worrying shift in tactics and there is a danger we have all become so cynical that it that it no longer raises the anger it would have done in the past. So Dawn Butler has highlighted this deliberately and provocatively. And it has worked just fine.
A clever move by a clever woman.
Edit: For purpose of accuracy, it was the Scottish Court of Sessions that was explicit that Johnson lied. The Supreme Court stopped short of saying that explicitly, but made it clear that they did not believe the reasons he gave for prorogation of parliament and that 'no justification for taking action with such an extreme effect has been put before the court' - which is effectively accusing him of lying.
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Very telling that in 64 posts on here about Dawn Butler calling out Johnson as a liar, not one has said that he isn’t.
Not one.
How the hell did we get here?
Not one.
How the hell did we get here?
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
Tony Blair lie.
Captain Whatabout
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
You're dismissed Private. Go clean the latrines.
highflyer
Well-known member
- Jan 21, 2016
- 2,554
True. I'd argue not quite as blatently (the dodgy dossier was an amaterish botch job, but at least a vague attempt to look like he wasn't lying) but I sometimes wonder if Cummings drew some of his tactical approach from watching how Blair got away with things. A combination of lies and charm seems to work very well in this country.
See also Bill Cinton...Although Trump proved that the charm bit seems to be unnecessary in the US at least.
nicko31
Well-known member
We're in the post truth, post shame world now. The Vote Leave government have smashed everything...
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
It was an international lie in league with other world politicians. So not all on him, but because so many lied it brought political lying more out in the open and each sides supporters just didn't seem to care.
It was Bush's lies that allowed a serial liar like Clinton to get away with what he did.
highflyer
Well-known member
- Jan 21, 2016
- 2,554
I'm not sure that's true. While he did still get away with it, at the time a lot of people cared a lot. Blairs reputation was certainly affected, for ever, amongst his (previous) support base.
What we've had since (and yes, probably before) has a been a process of boiling a frog as we become more and more accustomed to more and more blatent lying, we react less and politicians are emboldened to keep stepping it up.
Your world-weary 'they're all the same' cynicism, whilst understandable, is part of the problem in my opinion. It's a lazy cliché and solves nothing.
Dawn Butlers intervention may or may not have any affect, but the fact she's being 'punished' for telling what we all know to be the truth may just cause some pause for thought.
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
They're all the bloody same. Liars and noses in the trough.
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors - Plato
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors - Plato
Well done Dawn, a politician telling the truth.
Absolutely. It's just a shame that Ms Butler had to do it. It should have been the weak, ineffective leader of the Labour Party standing up to Johnson and calling him out. Starmer is presenting no opposition to the Tories whatsoever.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
I'm not sure there is a valid true equivalence between an occasional, rare liar and the Deceiver in Chief.
Pathological liars are the ones that need to be weeded out.
I'd have to disagree with that. We've had some principled politicians of all hues down the years, we really have. Our politicians have actually been the envy of similar nations. You only need to look across the water at France to see evidence of this - they've had absolute corrupt toe rags for years - so bad that the FN gained a foot hold.
It is absolutely laughable that Biggums sees fit to compare Blair to Johnson. When Johnson opens his mouth and it's not a lie, it's complete gibberish. The same cannot be said for Blair. Or Major. Or Thatcher. Or even David Cameron. These people had policies and while they weren't always transparent, you knew what the policy was. Johnson is just inept in every way, including his blatant lying.
I don't entirely blame an ignorant electorate that still look at cuddly fat Boris as if he's a mate and use Labour whataboutery at every turn to excuse appalling Tory leadership. I blame the local Tory constituent offices themselves for purging dissenting but principled people and replacing them with clueless sheep. The result is this: a govt that lies and blusters through everything, and then forces through shit laws and blames everyone else for it. This is truly the worst PM and government I have ever lived through and hope I ever see again.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,778
The only way to defend the indefensible, when backed into a corner, is to claim 'they're all the same' and that you don't participate - WATFORD zero
Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite - Joseph de Maistre
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