David Cameron ?

[Herr Tubthumper]

And thats a bad thing? Work hard.. get on...You have a problem with that ??

Sounds like you are of the opinion everyones entitled regardless of whether they work or not.

There's a huge difference between hard work and the destructive long hours some people have to work to make ends meet.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Work hard to make your way in life, to look after your family and to contribute a bit to those who cannot lok sfter themselves.Perfectly reasonable.

 

[sir albion]

And thats a bad thing? Work hard.. get on...You have a problem with that ??

Sounds like you are of the opinion everyones entitled, regardless of whether they work or not.

You work hard to make a better life and to have some nice things....With the cost of living rocketing at a ridiculous rate it's not quiet as good as uncle David thinks.Do they actually give a shite about the less fortunate people who earn a pittance and work 60hrs a week?

The work hard philosophy is the way forward most definitely although I can see why anyone would get pissed off to be fair.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

i wouldnt say simple, quite strange. though fair play for not trotting out the usual guff, which usually ignores 0 VAT and the proportion of income spent on that is less as you earn/spend more. what you seem to be saying is you want people who dont spend their money to be punished.

Not at all. Just bored with people trotting out personal allowance increases as cash in your pocket, without consideration of the overall taxation policy.

Ideologically the Tories want a strategy of tax cuts which ultimately benefit the wealthy to a greater degree than the average member of society.
VAT has always been their preferred method of clawing the money back. I believe I'm right in saying that they have never reduced this tax only increased it ( including the items in scope).

My view is VAT hits everyone. It's hidden and most people are unable to avoid it. It drags all hardworking people down, but does not get pinned to the government by most of the electorate.
I find it cowardly to be honest.

 

[Diablo]

There's a huge difference between hard work and the destructive long hours some people have to work to make ends meet.

ok there are some but ......surely however you agree Hard work long hours to improve your lot should be applauded..and anyone can improve their lot....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The only winners are the bosses and the government....So many knackered people out there it's unreal.The money just doesn't filter down where it should and strangely enough it was never this bad before to be fair.

You're spot on...its a massive smoke screen as government top ups are required as so many earn a pittance nowadays.

O well what can you do mmmmm

Oh yeah, forgot the wage top-ups. I'm amazed that people fall for it. And it's not the bosses and government who get the blame anyone, they have turned us against our ourselves. Let's blame people on low pay, the disabled, immigrants instead.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

ok there are some but ......surely however you agree Hard work long hours to improve your lot should be applauded..and anyone can improve their lot....

No, anyone cannot improve their lot. Everyone cannot have everything; it's impossible. There will always be some losers.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not at all. Just bored with people trotting out personal allowance increases as cash in your pocket, without consideration of the overall taxation policy.

Ideologically the Tories want a strategy of tax cuts which ultimately benefit the wealthy to a greater degree than the average member of society.
VAT has always been their preferred method of clawing the money back. I believe I'm right in saying that they have never reduced this tax only increased it ( including the items in scope).

My view is VAT hits everyone. It's hidden and most people are unable to avoid it. It drags all hardworking people down, but does not get pinned to the government by most of the electorate.
I find it cowardly to be honest.

This.

 

[Diablo]

Oh yeah, forgot the wage top-ups. I'm amazed that people fall for it. And it's not the bosses and government who get the blame anyone, they have turned us against our ourselves. Let's blame people on low pay, the disabled, immigrants instead.

Your last post was reasonable...Now you`re talkng Bollocks with the "Let's blame people on low pay, the disabled, immigrants instead" who`s blaming them and for what

 

[Diablo]

No, anyone cannot improve their lot. Everyone cannot have everything; it's impossible. There will always be some losers.

Again Bollocks "anyone can improve their lot"

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your last post was reasonable...Now you`re talkng Bollocks with the "Let's blame people on low pay, the disabled, immigrants instead" who`s blaming them and for what

This chap puts it more eloquently than me

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-dont-let-your-voice-be-taken-away-owen-jones

 

[peterward]

yes get in there. Exit Tories 316 Labour 239. Taxi for Milliband?

 

[beorhthelm]

You work hard to make a better life and to have some nice things....With the cost of living rocketing at a ridiculous rate it's not quiet as good as uncle David thinks.

this is good cliche thats been quite successfull - otherwise you wouldnt be blindly repeating it. the cost of living has gone up 1-2% in past year, as high as 5% in the past 5 years, hardly rocketing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Again Bollocks "anyone can improve their lot"

How can everyone have everything though? It doesn't work. Say you have 10 people, and 10 jobs. 1 job pays £10, the others £1. Not "anyone" can improve their lot. Only one person can.

 

[Diablo]

This chap puts it more eloquently than me

Where you talking about me Chap ...like being called that

 

[Uh_huh_him]

yes get in there. Exit Tories 316 Labour 239. Taxi for Milliband?

Looks like it. Enjoy the next 5 years.

The propaganda machine wins again.

 

[Codner pharmaceuticals]

Funny old argument this one.

If we just accepted that there will always be rich people and less well off people then we would be off to a good start.

If the poorer are only worried about cost of Sky TV then life "ain't" (sorry quoting Ed there) that bad.

Some other notes:
- What's in it for us / me - lowest unemployment rates since 2008
- @herr tubb - not only the poor work hard - some of those rich guys put in the hours too, when they are not just watching their Sky
- VAT hits the poorer more - not quite sure how this works as those who spend more will pay more in total overall VAT.
- Only the rich 1% vote conservative - not sure this is true - otherwise conservatives would only have 1% of the vote...
- btw the "rich" 1% contribute 30% of tax revenues - do we really want to piss that group off so much that they leave the country - where does this money then come from
- this concept that the richer don't give a damn about anyone vulnerable or needing support - see the point above about where the tax comes from. In addition, the richer people i know contribute an awful lot to society. They don't just shout about it or walk around tubthumping or being aggressive about other people with other ideas.

Just my thoughts and welcome other opinions. I quite liked this though. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-prosperity-Labour-in-a-magic-money-tree.html

 

[beorhthelm]

Ideologically the Tories want a strategy of tax cuts which ultimately benefit the wealthy to a greater degree than the average member of society.

if we assume as you pointed out correctly earlier that wealth is unspent accumulated income, then tax cuts do not benefit them. taxes are either income or consumption, so wealth is unaffected positivly or negatively (exception for inheritance).

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

And another one who swallows the bull.

The class divide has increased? where? in the Mirror or Guardian? or because Labour said its so? in true Labour class warfare rhetoric....... the inequality gap has actually shrunk, it was bigger under labour, maybe in large part to getting so many people into work.

Selling off the NHS? now that is the most fantastical rouse.... 6% of the NHS in privatised, who first privatised the NHS?.... oh please do tell? yes it was they who privatised the first 5%..... it is a shame and wrong that 1% more was privatised under Con/Lib, but it is the most blantant act of deceit and hypocrisy for the party who first privatised 5% to acuse the party who later privatised 1% of selling off the NHS.

Cutting welfare is not just cutting welfare payments to the most vunerable (though thats the line in the Guardian) getting 2 million off the dole and into work cuts the welfare budget it increases tax revenue for public services and it should always always pay to work rather. Choosing to live a life on benefits has been the choice of far to many for far to long and its just to easy for those that cant be arsed to work to no have to do so.
Benefits are meant to be a safety net for the genuine sick and disabled and to catch those working people if they fall, allowing them time to get back on their feet and back on the ladder, the'yre not a lifestyle choice for those who know how to play the system. I know as my own brother for ages said "its simply not worth working" when before he was getting such generous welfare to sit on his arse.... he's now working. 75% of the country agree with welfare reform.

Of course the debt is higher... when you inherit a 160 billion deficit, every year the debt will increase by at least 160 billion, because you spend 160 billion more than you earn.... its not rocket science. halving the deficit means we're only going into debt by half as much as we did in 2010. its now just 80 billion of deficit a year we're paying interest on to foreign investors in UK debt rather than the NHS or schools, cheers Labour.
The national debt and debt interest payments will always rise until the deficit is cleared and we live within what we earn, then and only then can the debt fall. its basic economics.

tax cuts for the top 1%? most economists believe that 45p brings in more than 50p and generates more spending which in turn adds VAT to the state. But what of Labours 13 years before, it was 40% for most of that time, they only put it to 50p when the economy crashed, so millionaires payed much less under Labour than now. So did Labour offer a tax cut for millionaires, bankers and the super rich or did the Tories increase Taxes on the top 1%?? But you dont mention that?? i wonder why. Fact is that upper tax rate is purely ideological, higher tax rate does not bring in more money, it loses money for schools and hospitals.... it just satisifies a craving in class warriers to bash high earners (of which I'm not), and actually does more harm to the economy than good...which in turn affects the poorest more than the Rich

The class divide has DECREASED? Oh that'll be why over a million people have had to use food banks in the last year thanks to Ian Duncan Smith's blundering incompetence and draconian sanctions regime. But they probably made a lifestyle choice to be poor and hungry so screw 'em right? The 3.5 million children living in poverty I hear you ask? Again, probably a lifestyle choice. And as for welfare you're right more people are in work now thanks to those mandatory unpaid "workfare" schemes. It doesn't really matter they were declared unlawful because they simply re-wrote the legislation and applied it retroactively so it would have been lawful had it been written that way when they used it to condemn thousands of people to absolute destitution. Again, probably their fault for choosing to live on £50 a week!

As for the NHS they forced through the biggest top down reorganisation in of the NHS in its entire history which carved up the NHS into pieces, many of which were sold off to major Tory party donors. Said reorganisation was strongly opposed by medical professionals AND DC said in the lead up to the 2010 election that there would be no more top down reorganisation of the NHS. Nice to know he can keep his word. Largest A&E department closure, huge cuts to funding and staffing meaning longer waiting times and midwives striking for the first time in 133 years. Top job DC!

 

[sir albion]

this is good cliche thats been quite successfull - otherwise you wouldnt be blindly repeating it. the cost of living has gone up 1-2% in past year, as high as 5% in the past 5 years, hardly rocketing.

Shame the wages hasn't risen for many....Wether your stats patch up or not it certainly doesn't seem that way for many.