David Cameron ?

[DavidinSouthampton]

Fastest growing economy in Europe, more jobs created & more people in full time employment in the UK than at any other time. Can't think why anyone other than welfare sponges could vote elsewhere

Because we're not all selfish and don't like the way the most vulnerable people in our society have been treated over the last 5 years.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

what a load of twisted claptrap......... the 4 very simple reasons why the UK economy grew (with personal debt) aka "boomed under Brown" in Browns first 7 years.

1) Labour inherited a sound economy in 97
2) Brown stuck to all of the Tories economic plans until 2004
3) The same period saw some of the largest ever % increases in property prices
4) Housing equity drove cheap personal debt exponentially (which is not real growth)

So sound the party of alleged economic competence was emphatically booted out of office. Blair inherited a country which was literally falling apart and critically starved of investment. If there was any money it was because it hadn't been spent on school, hospitals, roads and infrastructure.

 

[beorhthelm]

The British economy has never grown as fast at any point during the past five years as it was growing under the Gordon Brown Labour government.

well since 1994 at least. and yet he still couldnt balance a budget, thats why we ended up with all the spending because the state was vastly embiggened on his watch.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

fair point the VAT cancels out some of the tax allowance. but why do people regurgitate this idea on the impact of VAT without thinking for themselves? as an exercise, work out how much someone on say 10k, 26k and 50k will pay in VAT each year. if you like you can do it in cash terms and as a proportion of their dispoable income.

Not sure what I'm regurgitating?

My view on this point is simple.
If someone spends all of their disposable income. Then the VAT increase will take them into the red , minus the 20% tax relief on the personal allowance increase.
This will be true for most hard working people. Which is the target group under discussion. The wealthy are those that do not spend all of their disposable income. It isn't based on whether the individual earns £10k or £50k.


My argument is simple the majority in this group will be paying more on their purchases than they will be getting back in tax relief.

I understand your point This becomes a larger value the more you spend. In much the same way that a 10% tax cut for those earning over £100k seriously goes up the more they earn.

In my case I earn £50k a year, 35k after tax. I have two kids.
It all gets spent, luckily I have no debts other than my mortgage. I'm doing ok.
I would estimate I spend at least £15k a year on VAT rated items and services.
The 2.5% increase therefore hits me for £375 a year. This is more than the tax relief on the personal allowance increase.

In my opinion it's all a big con.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

well since 1994 at least. and yet he still couldnt balance a budget, thats why we ended up with all the spending because the state was vastly embiggened on his watch.

They needed to spend, the country was falling apart.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fastest growing economy in Europe, more jobs created & more people in full time employment in the UK than at any other time. Can't think why anyone other than welfare sponges could vote elsewhere

Oh ffs. Behave. Take a look at the real figures. It's smoke and mirrors based on zero-hour contracts and low paid work. And look at the productivity for the true state of the UK. And I thought you understood numbers?

 

[Ludensian Gull]

@ Steve Foster
Apologies if that was a thumbs down.

It was supposed to be a thumbs up

The thumbs down I gave him was meant

 

[Hampster Gull]

What is happening in Germany? I see the train staff are on strike, so are those in the german post. It has got the old uk disease. Even its inhabitants are voting labour in our election.

 

[sir albion]

All I see is many people doing a bucket load of overtime to get the bills paid....stress levels are soaring as the work load increases.
Guess we'll just have to continue doing 60+ hrs a week and see that as a good thing

 

[beorhthelm]

My view on this point is simple.
If someone spends all of their disposable income. Then the VAT increase will take them into the red , minus the 20% tax relief on the personal allowance increase.
This will be true for most hard working people. Which is the target group under discussion. The wealthy are those that do not spend all of their disposable income. It isn't based on whether the individual earns £10k or £50k.

i wouldnt say simple, quite strange. though fair play for not trotting out the usual guff, which usually ignores 0 VAT and the proportion of income spent on that is less as you earn/spend more. what you seem to be saying is you want people who dont spend their money to be punished.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What is happening in Germany? I see the train staff are on strike, so are those in the german post. It has got the old uk disease. Even its inhabitants are voting labour in our election.

No big deal. Happens every year. Union demands x, employer offers y, strike and they meet in the middle. Germany doesn't have the same hysteria over striking as the UK does.

 

[peterward]

So sound the party of alleged economic competence was emphatically booted out of office. Blair inherited a country which was literally falling apart and critically starved of investment. If there was any money it was because it hadn't been spent on school, hospitals, roads and infrastructure.

people were sick of the tories and sleaze, and Blair was the fresh new charasmatic moderniser with a slick modern PR machine offering what appeared radical change.... but the economy they inherited was going in only one direction after suffering for the recession of the early 90's. I voted for Blair in 97.

It proves it aint always the economy that wins elections. You can read about it on the IFS site.

and fwiw i think the current conservative party are far closer to Blairs new labour than the current Labour party is to New Labour.... but then you'd vote for a blind chimpanzee if it had a red rosette!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All I see is many people doing a bucket load of overtime to get the bills paid....stress levels are soaring as the work load increases.
Guess we'll just have to continue doing 60+ hrs a week and see that as a good thing

This. And the weird thing is some people see working long hours as a badge of honour.

 

[beorhthelm]

They needed to spend, the country was falling apart.

was it still falling apart after 10 years? if all the spending went on infrastructure, the budget would balance after a round of investment. unfortunatly most the spend has gone on reoccuring costs.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

That's rubbish, there isn't 20% vat on food and energy, and the 4 grand increase in personal allowance has put more of your earnings and especially the poorest in pockets.

It's a fact unemployment rises under labour as it did last time, they have no idea in how to set the conditions to increase the private sector, which increases jobs, reduces unemployment and lifts many out of a poverty. Its the productive part of business and job creation that adds most in tax revenue, but Labour see it as nothing more than something to fleece.

Coupled with high taxes, and massive borrowing it always ends one way. They destroy the money making machine that funds public sector and provides employment.

2 1/2p extra in VAT to try and pay down the largest deficit in western world in 2010 created by the labour party, is not as much of a crime as the labour party has done in dumping millions on the dole from their shear incompetence. From 97-04 they stuck to all the conservatives economic plans rigidly and the country boomed, then brown thought he could change the economic rules, which he kept doing to compensate for massive borrowing and missing all his economic targets, it then.started to unravel.

Party of working people my arse.... If you believe their lying propaganda more fool you.

The definition of insanity is trying the same things over and expecting a different result. If that clown and his false prophet chancellor get in, debt and debt interest will go up, unemployment will go up, growth will stall, back to 2010 we'll go and another economic disaster (the thing that most effects the Poorest) will be imminent. The real nasty party are the ones who leave a legacy of financial ruin that costs jobs, adds 1000's of future debt tó be paid by your kids and then leaves it to the competent to fix whilst sniping they don't fix it quickly enough.

Interesting rant.

Not sure what propaganda, I'm supposed to be swallowing. Enlighten me please
There is however a significant amount of misleading propaganda in your post.

"Millions on the dole from incompetence" wow.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

was it still falling apart after 10 years?

No.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

people were sick of the tories and sleaze, and Blair was the fresh new charasmatic moderniser with a slick modern PR machine offering what appeared radical change.... but the economy they inherited was going in only one direction after suffering for the recession of the early 90's. I voted for Blair in 97.

It proves it aint always the economy that wins elections. You can read about it on the IFS site.

and fwiw i think the current conservative party are far closer to Blairs new labour than the current Labour party is to New Labour.... but then you'd vote for a blind chimpanzee if it had a red rosette!

You really talk some rubbish at times.

 

[Diablo]

This. And the weird thing is some people see working long hours as a badge of honour.

And thats a bad thing? Work hard.. get on...You have a problem with that ??

Sounds like you are of the opinion everyones entitled, regardless of whether they work or not.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting rant.

Not sure what propaganda, I'm supposed to be swallowing. Enlighten me please
There is however a significant amount of misleading propaganda in your post.

"Millions on the dole from incompetence" wow.

This.

 

[sir albion]

This. And the weird thing is some people see working long hours as a badge of honour.

The only winners are the bosses and the government....So many knackered people out there it's unreal.The money just doesn't filter down where it should and strangely enough it was never this bad before to be fair.

You're spot on...its a massive smoke screen as government top ups are required as so many earn a pittance nowadays.

O well what can you do mmmmm