Dartford Crossing Rip-off

[Pavilionaire]

LB, do you honestly think people go there just to buy a few shelves?

When the missus and I go (and it's usually 2 or 3 times a year) we'll spend £150-£200 in Ikea, nip into B&Q, get some clothes in the shopping centre and still be home for tea.

I haven't got the time to f*** about all weekend in Brighton or Worthing, and I imagine I'm not the only one.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

People that think we will EVER be in a position where car use decreases in this country should be certified.

Next time i'm called out at 3 in the morning to sign off a defect on a 767 with 300 passengers about to start a well earned holiday I will tell them I cant make the journey because i'm cutting down my car usage.

The point is that airport workers should be recruited locally, not from places all over the south east.

That would "cut down car usage".

 

[Gwylan]

Shouldn't they sort out the alternatives a bit first though? It's crap and the trains are packed to the rafters every summer weekend anyway but still the operating companies run the minimum service they can get away with. Then the bus company hikes the fares every five minutes, even when the price of fuel is dropping like a stone.

I'm full on in favour of congestion charging and ring-fencing the dosh for public transport as in London but all stick and no carrot would simply mean fewer visitors to Brighton full stop. At the moment, Brighton trains and buses are run by unregulated rip-off shysters, whereas the buses in London were never unregulated.

Absolutely. Congestion charge money should be ring-fenced and used to subsidise the bus fares.

In a sane world. the trains would be run as a public service so that there'd be more of them, they'd be cheaper and less crowded; the Uckfield train would carry on to Lewes, and, oh yes, there'd be a station between Falmer and Moulsecoomb at the bottom of Coldean Lane.

And if that happened, I'd be watching out for low-flying pigs.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Yeah right Voroshilov, I'll remember to cycle to Lakeside Ikea next time I do a furniture run...

or you could choose to buy your furniture locally.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

LB, do you honestly think people go there just to buy a few shelves?

When the missus and I go (and it's usually 2 or 3 times a year) we'll spend £150-£200 in Ikea, nip into B&Q, get some clothes in the shopping centre and still be home for tea.

I haven't got the time to f*** about all weekend in Brighton or Worthing, and I imagine I'm not the only one.

No you're not the only one. The point I was making was that, before Lakeside was built, people COULD buy furniture locally ... from firms that delivered. And the same applied to stuff that now needs a trip to B&Q.

When I lived in the Cliffe High Street in Lewes, there were hardware shops, a furniture shop, a carpet shop and a garden supplies shop. They've all closed - as a result of the planners deciding that big out-of-town shopping centres were a good thing. The consequences are ... massive traffic growth and congestion.

If IKEA want to prosper, they should be the people paying to widen the motorways.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

No it isn't. The truth is the majority of those journeys could be made another way.

OK, you try and figure out a route from Brighton to say, Brentwood using alternative transport than a car,

Train takes forever as you have to get across London to Liverpool Street then another hellish trip on the East Coast main line I have tried it before and it took the best part of 3 1/2 Hours one way. If you consider a 6 hour travel time addition to the working day is reasonable then OK.

Car takes 1 1/2 Hours E/W

 

[Lord Bracknell]

OK, you try and figure out a route from Brighton to say, Brentwood using alternative transport than a car,

Train takes forever as you have to get across London to Liverpool Street then another hellish trip on the East Coast main line I have tried it before and it took the best part of 3 1/2 Hours one way. If you consider a 6 hour travel time addition to the working day is reasonable then OK.

Car takes 1 1/2 Hours E/W

Nowhere near 3 1/2 hours on the train.

National Rail Enquiries give these two options for a journey leaving now:-


Brighton dep 16:49 Southern
London Victoria arr 17:43
London Victoria dep 17:43 Underground #
London Liverpool Street arr 18:10
London Liverpool Street dep 18:42 one
Brentwood arr 19:18
Duration: 2:29

Brighton dep 17:03 First Capital Connect
Farringdon arr 18:31
Farringdon dep 18:31 Underground #
London Liverpool Street arr 18:43
London Liverpool Street dep 19:02 one
Brentwood arr 19:38
Duration: 2:35

Change at Farringdon is so much better than Victoria - although you do have the discomfort of "First" trains.

NRES also tend to exaggerate the time it takes to transfer across London. With the train frequencies on both routes, you can probably do it quicker than 2 1/2 hours.

But WHY OH WHY OH WHY travel daily between Brighton and Brentwood for work purposes?

 

[aftershavedave]

Nowhere near 3 1/2 hours on the train.

National Rail Enquiries give these two options for a journey leaving now:-


Brighton dep 16:49 Southern
London Victoria arr 17:43
London Victoria dep 17:43 Underground #
London Liverpool Street arr 18:10
London Liverpool Street dep 18:42 one
Brentwood arr 19:18
Duration: 2:29

Brighton dep 17:03 First Capital Connect
Farringdon arr 18:31
Farringdon dep 18:31 Underground #
London Liverpool Street arr 18:43
London Liverpool Street dep 19:02 one
Brentwood arr 19:38
Duration: 2:35

Change at Farringdon is so much better than Victoria - although you do have the discomfort of "First" trains.

But WHY OH WHY OH WHY travel daily between Brighton and Brentwood for work purposes?

better off brighton to london bridge, walk over to bank then central line to stratford, mchange to brentwood i'd have thought.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

OK, you try and figure out a route from Brighton to say, Brentwood using alternative transport than a car,

Train takes forever as you have to get across London to Liverpool Street then another hellish trip on the East Coast main line I have tried it before and it took the best part of 3 1/2 Hours one way. If you consider a 6 hour travel time addition to the working day is reasonable then OK.

Car takes 1 1/2 Hours E/W

So the question is why do you live so far away from your workplace?

 

[aftershavedave]

better off brighton to london bridge, walk over to bank then central line to stratford, mchange to brentwood i'd have thought.

oh and about 2 hours max

 

[Lord Bracknell]

better off brighton to london bridge, walk over to bank then central line to stratford, mchange to brentwood i'd have thought.

Indeed.

But isn't WALKING a breach of human rights these days? No enquiry service would DARE suggest it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

No you're not the only one. The point I was making was that, before Lakeside was built, people COULD buy furniture locally ... from firms that delivered. And the same applied to stuff that now needs a trip to B&Q.

If IKEA want to prosper, they should be the people paying to widen the motorways.

Ikea themselves will be paying a lot of tax in business rates, employers National Insurance, corporation tax etc, so I think they're making a fair contribution to UK taxation.

However, I think the consumer needs to be mindful that it is a good thing to buy products from a number of sources to spread the wealth around, but then there's a time constraint - one of the reasons I go to Lakeside is because I know I will be able to get exactly what I'm looking for in one place.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Ikea themselves will be paying a lot of tax in business rates, employers National Insurance, corporation tax etc, so I think they're making a fair contribution to UK taxation.

No they DON'T make their "fair contribution".

The fair contribution would be a contribution (shared with all the other major retailers) that met the FULL costs of providing road improvements to serve every major out-of-town retail park in the UK.

With roads costing MILLIONS per mile, that would be a huge bill.

But - if IKEA and the rest aren't paying it - why should other taxpayers chip in? The major retailers are getting a massive subsidy from public funds, which they use to put small, local retailers out of business.

We are fools to accept this.

 

[DIN]

The point is that airport workers should be recruited locally, not from places all over the south east.

That would "cut down car usage".

What utter garbage, I live 17 miles away from Gatwick and would have to take a taxi to work at night if I couldnt drive because there is no public 24 hour transport in most of Sussex.

 

[Gwylan]

What utter garbage, I live 17 miles away from Gatwick and would have to take a taxi to work at night if I couldnt drive because there is no public 24 hour transport in most of Sussex.

But the point that Lord B was making is that people shouldn't live so far from their workplace but should live locally.

There was a European survey about 10 years ago (which I haven't seen repeated) that showed that the average Brit had the longest journey to work in Europe. I would guess that, if anything, we take even longer to get to work (although that could also be the shocking train service).

I think that what his Lordship is saying is nice in theory but hard to put in practice. I'd love to shop at a local store but there's not one within two miles of where I live. I'd love to work closer to home but I need a London job to afford to pay the mortgage.

We would need more than a change in transport policy to cut down on car journeys.

 

[algie]

I know this is not an Albion issue, but I know there are posters on here from across the country so thought I would vent in here!

The Government is considering "congestion charging" on motorways, specifically the M25, in the form of an increase from £1.00 to £1.50 for a car to go through the Dartford Tunnel or over the QE2 bridge all through the day but free passage between 11pm and 6am.

They argue that the level of traffic around the toll plaza indicates that there is a particular bottleneck there, hence the price hike.

Has no one considered the possibility that the fact there is f**cking miles of traffic jams there pretty much all the time is BECAUSE the f**king traffic is stuck going through the tolls??

The whole thing is s**te! if they removed the tolls as they promised they would once the crossings were paid for the problem would evaporate.

somehow I cant see them doing that.

It really gets my goat this sort of thing, I have been sat in the most appalling jams over there because they wont even suspend the tolls if there is a major smash on the approaches, so you end up with 2 lots of congestion, one for the accident, then another for the tolls, if there has been a big crash in the area they should lift the barriers to keep traffic flowing.

I think there should be some sort of protest if this b****cks goes through.

Bah.

It's extra revenue for this crap government mate.That is the sole pupose only.Lets screw the general public again and cover it up by saying it will ease congestion or the latest excuse they love is the green issue.Labour want your money.The toll prices will only ever rise from now on and if you think they will halt it then you are sadly mistaken.
Don't we pay enough car tax already?

 

[algie]

No it isn't. The truth is the majority of those journeys could be made another way.

You do talk shit.People Would avoid the crossing if they could but they certainly won't if it adds a couple of hours to there journey

 

[jakes right boot]

If IKEA want to prosper, they should be the people paying to widen the motorways.

All the Ikea stores that have been built in this country are alongside existing main trunk roads or motorways. Other furniture stores charge a lot more than Ikea so people choose to vote with their feet (or their cars) and buy their furniture where they get better value for money.
As for travelling to work, it doesn't help that firms relocate expecting their workforce to follow or centralise their offices.

 

[algie]

Why and earth people shop and Ikea is beyond me.There furniture is shocking for a start.Been to one once and never again

 

[desprateseagull]

any deliberate holdup at DT could be construed as a terrosrist threat, and get you a bullet.

as for the free night time crosings, i think it is lke that (or much cheaper than daytime) already.. though driving at night is when most people are likely to fall asleep at the wheel..?

i go oop north a few times with friends, and the q seems minimal, if you go at offpeak times.. far better than the scrum via heathrow..