Darling doubles Inheritance tax threshold

[Buzzer]

newspapers like a "story" and are happy to make them up... the boring old truth that Labour continue to do a competent job and, having cracked the financial trust issue should now stay in power indefinitely, isn't a very exciting story...

much more interesting to talk up the chances of the upper class twits for a while

Yep. That's the Grauniad and Indy's mantra isn't it?

Real world calling Moshe. You can return anytime.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

OK, the Tories forced the Labour party's hand on the issue. The thing is, I don't actually have a problem with this and it annoys me that the media and Tory party are demonising this turn of events (it would be same if the boot were on the other foot). What is wrong with saying "unlike most of your policies, yes this policy of yours is quite a good one and so we're going to implement it"?

So it's actually quite a brave decision by Labour to steal this Tory policy, IMO.

youve convinced me come on Labour

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Yep. That's the Grauniad and Indy's mantra isn't it?

they are newspapers... I almost bought one of those very titles yesterday to read their take on the current titillation - settled for Paxman's glee on Newsnight...

as soon as a proper news story comes along it will all be forgotten and Gordon can get on with the job that matters - prioritisation of the key public services and continued improvements

 

[Starry]

As someone who has some knowledge in this area and is also currently being treated for cancer by the NHS, I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. You don't have to look far to see that cancer clearly is a top priority within the NHS and my treatment since being first diagnosed has been first class with seemless coordination between the various hospital departments (eg oncology, GI and hepatology) who are dealing with my case.
So everyone who visits the hospital by car has to pay for parking - why should oncology patients be treated differently? To be honest, I often get the bus as I find it's less stressful (which is good for my condition as well).

I am glad (though of course, I wish you had no need) you are having a positive experience of oncology treatment in the NHS.

But it is not the same across the board. Unfortunately. Though we did get a free car parking pass at the hospital.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

So they'll be putting back the money into pension schemes that they stole a few years back then?

Stole?
Would this be Pension Funds having to pay tax (like the rest of us) on dividends generated from shares bought with pension contributions that are (income or corporation) tax deductable?

 

[NMH]

newspapers like a "story" and are happy to make them up... the boring old truth that Labour continue to do a competent job and, having cracked the financial trust issue should now stay in power indefinitely, isn't a very exciting story...

much more interesting to talk up the chances of the upper class twits for a while

Well put.

 

[Buzzer]

Stole?
Would this be Pension Funds having to pay tax (like the rest of us) on dividends generated from shares bought with pension contributions that are (income or corporation) tax deductable?

Yep. On pensions that are taxed for ee and er NI when you pay in and taxed for PAYE and er NI when you receive them. Great con trick by Labour - taxing me 3 times for my pension.

 

[Curious Orange]

Stole?
Would this be Pension Funds having to pay tax (like the rest of us) on dividends generated from shares bought with pension contributions that are (income or corporation) tax deductable?

What, you mean the same dividends that are used to keep those pension funds at a level at which they can actually fund their members retirements? 'Cos they only started reneging on their commitments after Gordon made his cash grab, I wonder why...

... and no, I agree, there wouldn't have been a problem if companies hadn't been allowed to take contribution holidays by the Tories - it was a bloody stupid idea to let that happen, and still is.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

blaming the Government for removing tax credits on dividends. Quite clearly.

That and FRS17 forcing notional deficits on pension funds onto balance sheets.

Not gone over my head.

You may be better informed than me on this and sorry if I'm being a wally but isn't the point you make about FRS17 related to the pension funds being able to show that they are adequately funded to meet their liabilities. The requirement to list any deficit on the company's balance sheet is surely a matter of transparency and I can't see a problem with that?

 

[London Calling]

Yep. On pensions that are taxed for ee and er NI when you pay in and taxed for PAYE and er NI when you receive them. Great con trick by Labour - taxing me 3 times for my pension.

Gone over my head.....................

 

[Dave the OAP]

As I uderstand this, if your parents house is worth say 350k, one dies, the house transfers to the other with no Inheritance tax...

If the other parent then dies, the house is still worth 350k and the house is 50 /50 to the two remaining siblings, do the siblings pay inheritance tax or not?

 

[Buzzer]

You may be better informed than me on this and sorry if I'm being a wally but isn't the point you make about FRS17 related to the pension funds being able to show that they are adequately funded to meet their liabilities. The requirement to list any deficit on the company's balance sheet is surely a matter of transparency and I can't see a problem with that?

But FRS17 is fundamentally flawed. It is a hypothetical value, with no true reflection on the size of a pension schemes liabilities. The BBC saw it's deficit cut a few years back by something like 15% (I recall, could be wrong but it's of that magnitude) in the space between publishing their accounts and scrutiny by the public accounts committee. It's far too unstable for something so huge to be plonked on a balance sheet as a liability without a huge caveat being applied to it.
It's method of calculation also seriously overstates deficits. Effectively liabilities are revalued using a rate equivalent to the annual yield on AA-rated bonds and this is far, far too cautious and doesn't reflect the true cost of borrowing for a company.. Many respected academics argue that companies should use their own cost of capital (the rate at which a company can borrow or raise money in the market).
It's actually forced companies to cut pensions so that they can remain profitable and attractive to investors. The sale of WHSmith collapsed because of the pension scheme liability recorded in the accounts. Large numbers of jobs may go because of the inability to find a buyer. Small comfort to the existing staff. You've lost your job but don't worry. Your pension scheme liability is duly recorded (albeit at a purely hypothetical level).
It's an absolute mess of a reporting standard with no benefit to the shareholders for whom annual accounts OUGHT to be written for.

 

[Buzzer]

Gone over my head.....................

I'm taxed at 11% on my income that I choose to pay into a pension scheme. My employer is also taxed with er ni.
I then pay into a pension scheme which earns dividends. I'm taxed on this.
I then buy an annuity with my (taxed) pension pot. I pay PAYE on this "income".

That's 3 times by my reckoning. Where's the incentive?

Say I chose not to be in a pension but bought the shares myself - I'd be taxed for PAYE and NI on my gross pay and then with my net pay buy some shares. These are taxed as dividend income. I'd be in exactly the same position as above wouldn't I?
...And I'd be able to pass on the shares to my next of kin when I die. Something I can't do with my annuity.

In short Gordon has killed any incentive to invest in pensions.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I'm taxed at 11% on my income that I choose to pay into a pension scheme. My employer is also taxed with er ni.
I then pay into a pension scheme which earns dividends. I'm taxed on this.
I then buy an annuity with my (taxed) pension pot. I pay PAYE on this "income".

That's 3 times by my reckoning. Where's the incentive?

Say I chose not to be in a pension but bought the shares myself - I'd be taxed for PAYE and NI on my gross pay and then with my net pay buy some shares. These are taxed as dividend income. I'd be in exactly the same position as above wouldn't I?
...And I'd be able to pass on the shares to my next of kin when I die. Something I can't do with my annuity.

In short Gordon has killed any incentive to invest in pensions.

Isnt your pension payments deducted before PAYE and NIC?

 

[Buzzer]

Isnt your pension payments deducted before PAYE and NIC?

Yes to PAYE but the chancellor taxes your income BEFORE pensions deductions for NI.

Great, isn't it?

 

[Dave the OAP]

Yes to PAYE but the chancellor taxes your income BEFORE pensions deductions for NI.

Great, isn't it?

so long as the NI contributions go into the State Pension/NHS pot, I have no problem with that.

 

[Buzzer]

so long as the NI contributions go into the State Pension/NHS pot, I have no problem with that.

Sadly, NI is not in reality a hypothecated tax...and where's the incentive to save for a pension?

 

[London Calling]

I'm taxed at 11% on my income that I choose to pay into a pension scheme. My employer is also taxed with er ni.
I then pay into a pension scheme which earns dividends. I'm taxed on this.
I then buy an annuity with my (taxed) pension pot. I pay PAYE on this "income".

That's 3 times by my reckoning. Where's the incentive?

Say I chose not to be in a pension but bought the shares myself - I'd be taxed for PAYE and NI on my gross pay and then with my net pay buy some shares. These are taxed as dividend income. I'd be in exactly the same position as above wouldn't I?
...And I'd be able to pass on the shares to my next of kin when I die. Something I can't do with my annuity.

In short Gordon has killed any incentive to invest in pensions.

Thanks..............I think. To most people this is so complicated and I would say boring, that it does over their heads, thus a very clever way of collecting revenue......whatever, its economic benefits

 

[Dave the OAP]

Sadly, NI is not in reality a hypothecated tax...and where's the incentive to save for a pension?

the incentive is the realisation that you would be well pushed to have any sort of quality of life if you just had to rely on the state pension. When you get to my age, these are things that you get to think about.

 

[London Calling]

the incentive is the realisation that you would be well pushed to have any sort of quality of life if you just had to rely on the state pension. When you get to my age, these are things that you get to think about.

.........................so you then invest in property eg rentals..................thus helping to increase property prices..................................which raises the cost of living.........................................reducing our quality of life.......................................................