[Albion] Dan Ashworth - Is he the problem?

[Springal]

What structure would people have without Dan Ashworth out of interest?

You need someone to run the 'football side' - overall responsibility for first team, womens team, U23, U18s etc. Should this be Paul Barber? Tony Bloom?

Surely the days of Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson running the show are gone given how much investment goes into other areas now

 

[Commander]

The sacking of Chris Hughton was one of the club’s biggest mistakes - being proved now, finally.

Paul Barber would have been no-where near that decision

Tony Bloom would have reacted to the “gossip” from the dressing room that he was being fed by Ashworth

That’s the guy responsible, have no doubt about it.

He is ultimately responsible, but he’s in a position where it will always be the Manager or Head Coach that will lose their job.

Said it on 13th May 2019 and been been saying it ever since. It is NOT Graham Potters fault

What absolute nonsense. How is it possibly being proved now!? We got our highest ever points tally last year and we’re currently out of the relegation zone and regularly using academy players that Hughton ignored (which must have seriously pissed Bloom off after he spent millions and millions on it).

We’re not great at the moment and questions are rightly being asked of Potter, but to say sacking Hughton has been proved to be one of our biggest ever mistakes is absolutely laughable.

What did you expect Hughton to do last year and so far this season? What evidence is there that our league position would have been any better? Hughton who is currently managing a team 4th from bottom in the Championship, remember.

 

[blockhseagull]

But whose suggestion was sacking Hughton?

Bloom’s

 

[elwheelio]

Southgate is the manager of England and Aidy Boothroyd is in charge of the U21s

Both failed to differing degrees at club level, they were headhunted by England.

Being involved in the England setup is hardly a sign of quality. It's the ultimate "yes man" setup of uncontroversial and previously unsuccessful losers. Southgate's soul management achievement was getting Middlesbrough relegated.

 

[Justice]

CH just had to go, just don't think the new holistic approach was the answer.

Did he? Sheffield Utd are struggling in the second season yet last season Chris Wilder was the bees knees around here. Bloom panicked after one dodgy Hughton season he should of known better.

 

[blockhseagull]

Hughton kept us up twice - FACT

Retained £250m of revenue for the club - FACT

Premier League Points per game higher under Hughton (without Ashworth) than since - FACT

We are in the worst situation ever in the Premier League at this stage. - FACT

Ashworth and the philosophy is the issue - it isn’t Potter, as it wasn’t Hughton.

Potter is facing the same problems as Hughton, but he’s less experienced as to how to deal with them. Hughton was an experienced Premier League manager who had huge credit in the Albion bank.

Potter may well keep us up, but we’re no better off than we were under Hughton

So why sack Hughton and not Potter?

Potter hasn’t got us relegated - FACT

Potter retained £250m revenue for the club - FACT

Potter achieved our highest PL position - FACT

You have no proof Ashworth had anything to do with CH performance or his sacking.

You just have your own opinion which has no substance or actual facts.

 

[Springal]

Being involved in the England setup is hardly a sign of quality. It's the ultimate "yes man" setup of uncontroversial and previously unsuccessful losers. Southgate's soul management achievement was getting Middlesbrough relegated.

But also taking England to a World Cup semi final for the time in 28 years.....

 

[Springal]

Did he? Sheffield Utd are struggling in the second season yet last season Chris Wilder was the bees knees around here. Bloom panicked after one dodgy Hughton season he should of known better.

It wasn't one dodgy season, we were declining in almost every area / stat. That second half season run of games was terrible and Hughton showed no ability to run it around. So technically the same as we are seeing now...

 

[elwheelio]

But also taking England to a World Cup semi final for the time in 28 years.....

Fair point but the other way of looking at it is we lost all three games to the only decent teams we played (Croatia, Belgium x 2).

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I don't like the role at all and I think it did for Hughton. I've worked a lot in senior management and change or new positions at that level tend to unsettle the incumbent.

That said, I agree it is Tony's (current) vision so not much will change.

Positioning yourself at "the centre of the wheel" is another way of not taking responsibility, which is a bit shit when the story doing the rounds is that Ashworth recommended Potter to TB after the Swansea / Man City cup game.

If anything, it feels like he’s taking full responsibility. He’s basically saying that nothing works around him without the consistency brought by the person in his position.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

The sacking of Chris Hughton was one of the club’s biggest mistakes - being proved now, finally.

Paul Barber would have been no-where near that decision

Tony Bloom would have reacted to the “gossip” from the dressing room that he was being fed by Ashworth

That’s the guy responsible, have no doubt about it.

He is ultimately responsible, but he’s in a position where it will always be the Manager or Head Coach that will lose their job.

Said it on 13th May 2019 and been been saying it ever since. It is NOT Graham Potters fault

Sacking Hughton was 100% the right thing to do. If anything, it took far too long for it to happen.

Whether that means we shouldn’t sack Potter now is another question altogether.

 

[NooBHA]

If anything, it feels like he’s taking full responsibility. He’s basically saying that nothing works around him without the consistency brought by the person in his position.

Exactly as I mentioned above. Can't function without me but if it goes wrong " it's the others around me that have to be held accountable "

 

[Perkino]

I disagree with Ashworth's 'pedigree', this is the man who employed Southgate, he will ruin a fantastic group of young English talent because he is simply not good enough and I don't think Potter is good enough either. In the long run I think the sacking of Chris Hughton will go down as one of the clubs biggest ever mistakes and someone out of Bloom, Ashworth or Barber has to hold that to account

If we had stuck with Chris Hughton we would probably already have been relegated. Most successful managers have a slow start and periods of uncertainty whilst they transition but once they break through the results start to appear. The only question is will the changes pay off in time to secure survival

 

[Guinness Boy]

If anything, it feels like he’s taking full responsibility. He’s basically saying that nothing works around him without the consistency brought by the person in his position.

I disagree entirely. What he's saying is that if Potter's coaching isn't up to it that's not his oversight. If player recruitment goes even more wrong he's not heading it up. If the Under 23s aren't producing he's not Head Of Under 23s. And yet none of those functions can exist without him (when they all used to before he arrived). He's trying to make himself impossible to remove without actually taking ownership. It's very clever but it benefits him more than us.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I'm in two minds over this one. Ashworth is credited with the much-vaunted 'England DNA' notion that seems to have delivered success at the junior levels but not really in the senior team. That World Cup semi-final was the product of the luck of the draw, with all the difficult opponents we should have faced being knocked out. England's actual results were all par for the course according to our world ranking, and Gareth Southgate, a pleasant enough guy but also exactly the sort the FA blazers all like, was neither tactically astute nor personally inspiring enough to lift the players above their limitations.

The post of technical director, director of football or whatever you want to call it, is essential these days at any proper club, and Ashworth is no doubt fulfilling the duties involved in sorting out the u-18s and u-23s well enough. Indeed, his FA connections are probably a great help. But he has no record of success at senior level.

 

[Springal]

I

The post of technical director, director of football or whatever you want to call it, is essential these days at any proper club, and Ashworth is no doubt fulfilling the duties involved in sorting out the u-18s and u-23s well enough. Indeed, his FA connections are probably a great help. But he has no record of success at senior level.

For those that want rid, I am still keen to understand what the alternative in, like you say at a modern day Premier League club

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I disagree entirely. What he's saying is that if Potter's coaching isn't up to it that's not his oversight. If player recruitment goes even more wrong he's not heading it up. If the Under 23s aren't producing he's not Head Of Under 23s. And yet none of those functions can exist without him (when they all used to before he arrived). He's trying to make himself impossible to remove without actually taking ownership. It's very clever but it benefits him more than us.

Have to completely disagree. He takes his orders from TB or PB and utilises what is around him to meet that vision. He is required to keep on top of all those areas by having the right people in place and ensuring they are following the brief.

The close link between TB, PB and DA is there for the feedback and decision making going forward. If any of the reports in to DA fail to do their job they can be replaced without upsetting the overall vision.

It all makes perfect sense

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I disagree entirely. What he's saying is that if Potter's coaching isn't up to it that's not his oversight. If player recruitment goes even more wrong he's not heading it up. If the Under 23s aren't producing he's not Head Of Under 23s. And yet none of those functions can exist without him (when they all used to before he arrived). He's trying to make himself impossible to remove without actually taking ownership. It's very clever but it benefits him more than us.

I think that’s one way of looking at it. Ultimately, what I think he’s saying is that the shift has moved away from Managers making all of the long term decisions and, honestly, this is a sensible decision for any forward thinking business. Managers are middle management in all businesses but they’re glorified in football. The clubs that have the most success have a lot of stability and structure behind the scenes and then they invest in good Managers to try and turn that into success on the pitch (or at ground level, as it were). If that ground level success doesn’t happen, they find someone who can take what they’ve done and make it better. It’s just logical really.

What I would say is that a lot has improved over the past year. Whilst Potter makes some incredibly frustrating decisions at times, the football is better, youngsters are improving and being given opportunities, we’re managing people on loan better by everything I’ve read, and that’s because we have a long term plan from senior management.

 

[Justice]

It wasn't one dodgy season, we were declining in almost every area / stat. That second half season run of games was terrible and Hughton showed no ability to run it around. So technically the same as we are seeing now...

No one was complaining after the first PL season so I have to disagree, in fact one dodgy half a season and he’s out the door. The timing with Ashworth joining may be a coincidence perhaps a little voice in Blooms ear raving about Graham Potter swayed the decision.

On another point when we beat Arsenal, Man Utd at home for a comparison under Hughton was the football any better than what Potter has served up? I found those games incredibly exciting at the time.

 

[vagabond]

I think that’s one way of looking at it. Ultimately, what I think he’s saying is that the shift has moved away from Managers making all of the long term decisions and, honestly, this is a sensible decision for any forward thinking business. Managers are middle management in all businesses but they’re glorified in football. The clubs that have the most success have a lot of stability and structure behind the scenes and then they invest in good Managers to try and turn that into success on the pitch (or at ground level, as it were). If that ground level success doesn’t happen, they find someone who can take what they’ve done and make it better. It’s just logical really.

What I would say is that a lot has improved over the past year. Whilst Potter makes some incredibly frustrating decisions at times, the football is better, youngsters are improving and being given opportunities, we’re managing people on loan better by everything I’ve read, and that’s because we have a long term plan from senior management.

Brilliant post [emoji123]

Totally agree this is good forward thinking from the club. In the old method, you’d bin the manager and then have to rebuild everything from scratch. I think we’re aiming to be at the point where we can be an Ajax. And replace the head coach and still retain the entire structure and philosophy of the football club.