Dale Stephens' appeal [Update: appeal rejected, 3 game ban stands]

[Finchley Seagull]

The get out clause Dean has it that he was only going to show a yellow but on the say so of the linesman he gave a red card therefore shifting all the blame onto the linesman

( and pigs might fly )

Except they are all officials. As I've said before in another thread, I think Dean is lying. As others have said, he clearly talks about the injury to our players and, if he was going to talk to the linesman, why did he have his yellow card out already? Why not wait?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Having been sat across the pitch none of us thought there was anything harsh about the tackle. Ramirez had spent the game diving like Jaques Cousteau and Boro players were kicking lumps off of ours all over the pitch much to Deans indifference all through the match.

I get the sense that Dean, having refereed the PO final last year between Boro and Norwich must have decided, on some subconscious level, to hand the game to them this time by using us as sacrificial lambs.

As for the Boro fans...very drunk, mostly sporting towards us afterwards with only the odd bell cheese.

It was odd though when leaving that a Brighton fan was standing there berating us for being "shit fans" for some unknown reason.

 

[brakespear]

Are there any decent examples of red cards being overturned?

Wasn't there an Arsenal player this season who had one overturned? Something to do with Costa and standing on feet or something.

 

[chaileyjem]

I know the FA are unlikely to do the right thing.....

but does anyone know when we are likely to hear the outcome?

Normally its on a Thursday after a weekend match.
The rather dull guidance for how an appeal is conducted is here in its 20 odd page glory
http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/...-disciplinary-procedures---section-a_b_c.ashx
A slightly more readable version which summarises what happens is this
https://playtheadvantage.com/2014/02/06/what-a-red-card-appeal-really-means-part-one/

 

[sydney]

At least he won't be reffing England !!!!

isn't it just staggeringly ironic that being a cjtc of the highest order is rewarded with recognition and a big jolly up........i'm absolutely flabergasted....Dean has long history with Arsenal as he is apparently a spurs fan .....but he is from the wirral where you would expect red or blue half of scouse or possibly manu but the kant is a spurs fan....wtf is he on..

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Having been sat across the pitch none of us thought there was anything harsh about the tackle. Ramirez had spent the game diving like Jaques Cousteau and Boro players were kicking lumps off of ours all over the pitch much to Deans indifference all through the match.

Agree except I wouldn't even call it a tackle. He was quicker than Ramirez and got to the ball first.

Ramirez's dive (when backing in to one of our players) led to the original argument between him and Stephens.

 

[chaileyjem]

Are there any decent examples of red cards being overturned?

West Ham have successfully appealed three times this season.

 

[kevo]

Except they are all officials.

And the officials who have commented (Halsey, Gallagher) have backed Dean so far, whereas all the players who have commented have said it wasn't a red.

I have a good friend who actually works with a Premier League referee - if she gets the chance today, she's going to ask his opinion. Will be interesting to hear an official's *honest* assessment when not under the media spotlight when they have to be seen as protecting their own.

 

[Surf's Up]

The process will, in all likelihood, underline the corporate incompetence, lack of professionalism and mind boggling stupidity endemic in the FA. Its an old boys club, referee centric, amateur in it's approach and thinking - Mark Bright is even on one of their key Membership Committees ffs!!!

 

[chaileyjem]

There's literally no point in the appeal system. The FA just back their own. .

Ask West Ham (3 successful appeals this season).
Ask Stoke http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-red-card-against-stoke-overturned-on-appeal
Ask Arsenal http://www.skysports.com/football/n...enal-defender-gabriel-has-red-card-overturned
Ask Newcastle http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34638706

etc etc

 

[lawros left foot]

Not that I imagine he'll be serving that ban with us anyway if we don't go up.

Yeah, like Dunk was absolutely nailed on to go to Fulham, at the start of this season.
How did that turn out?

Let's wait and see, eh.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Yeah, like Dunk was absolutely nailed on to go to Fulham, at the start of this season.
How did that turn out?

Let's wait and see, eh.

Stephens is out of contract next year. Hasn't wanted to sign a new one and seemingly wants a return up north. I imagine a promotion may change his mind - if we don't I imagine we'll cash in. We didn't need to for Dunk.

 

[binky]

It's interesting to note that of the three constituencies, Refs, players and fans.
1) Refs, (in the Sun, and on Sky), have backed Dean's decision, but both quoted the severity of the injury, which surely has no basis in the laws of the game)
2) Players (i.e. ex-player pundits) are I think 100% that a yellow would have been harsh or perhaps correct, but that a red was wrong.
3) Fans opinions, (particularly ours), are coloured by partisanship. But taking the obvious extreme opinions out, I would guess it's roughly 50/50.

Given the refs views, the importance of the match, and the fact that 'Boro's promotion is now a done deal and they wouldn't want any (further) controversy undermining that outcome, I think it's unlikely we will get the card rescinded on appeal.

On the "advice from the linesman" theory, it can be seen on the video that the lino on the far side of the pitch was unsighted by another player at the moment of contact.
The lino on the near side, is not on camera at this time, but the incident is not in his half of the pitch, and it appears that depending on his exact location, again there may be players obscuring his view.
The Ref however is clearly only 3 to 4 meters away, with a clear view of the incident.

I think the first talk of the ref having advice from the linesman came from CH in his post match comments, This seems politic, because almost any other reply would have cast aspersions on the ref... and we know CH doesn't do that.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's interesting to note that of the three constituencies, Refs, players and fans.
1) Refs, (in the Sun, and on Sky), have backed Dean's decision, but both quoted the severity of the injury, which surely has no basis in the laws of the game)

The severity of the injury would presumably refer back to the laws of the game covering excessive force. A perfectly timed ball winning tackle can be a red card offence if the referee concludes excessive force was used. I don't say that in reference to Stephens who I don't think used excessive force or was reckless, more to your point of it having no basis in the laws of the game.

However, you'd have to conclude that Mike Dean could justify himself by at first believing that the tackle was reckless and under the laws of the game regardless of winning the ball it is a yellow card, however upon seeing the injury decided it must have been excessive force hence the red. Wrongly in my opinion, but that is what they'll have been saying.

Careless, reckless, using excessive force
“Careless” means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or that he acted without precaution.
• No further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless
“Reckless” means that the player has acted with complete disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent.
• A player who plays in a reckless manner must be cautioned
“Using excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent.
• A player who uses excessive force must be sent off

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's interesting to note that of the three constituencies, Refs, players and fans.
1) Refs, (in the Sun, and on Sky), have backed Dean's decision, but both quoted the severity of the injury, which surely has no basis in the laws of the game)
2) Players (i.e. ex-player pundits) are I think 100% that a yellow would have been harsh or perhaps correct, but that a red was wrong.
3) Fans opinions, (particularly ours), are coloured by partisanship. But taking the obvious extreme opinions out, I would guess it's roughly 50/50.

Given the refs views, the importance of the match, and the fact that 'Boro's promotion is now a done deal and they wouldn't want any (further) controversy undermining that outcome, I think it's unlikely we will get the card rescinded on appeal.

On the "advice from the linesman" theory, it can be seen on the video that the lino on the far side of the pitch was unsighted by another player at the moment of contact.
The lino on the near side, is not on camera at this time, but the incident is not in his half of the pitch, and it appears that depending on his exact location, again there may be players obscuring his view.
The Ref however is clearly only 3 to 4 meters away, with a clear view of the incident.

I think the first talk of the ref having advice from the linesman came from CH in his post match comments, This seems politic, because almost any other reply would have cast aspersions on the ref... and we know CH doesn't do that.

Fair play to you for rationalising the situation, but the fact of the matter is the FA won't want to have to engage their brains over this and won't want to go against one of their 'top' referees. The red card will stand.

Indeed, the overwhelming lack of expectation on this board against any other outcome shows just how out of touch and disrespected the FA have become.

 

[sydney]

shafted again then...

 

[Turkey]

Goals on Sunday take on it.. you need sound.

 

[Lush]

Stephens is out of contract next year. Hasn't wanted to sign a new one and seemingly wants a return up north. I imagine a promotion may change his mind - if we don't I imagine we'll cash in. We didn't need to for Dunk.

Surely no contracts are being offered or signed until we know what League we'll be in.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Any excessive force comes from Ramirez following through, not Stephens who pushes a football a few yards with his touch. If that's the reasoning then the red card should be rescinded.

During the appeal does the referee have to stand up and explain EXACTLY why he produced a red? Because I can't see how you can look at that and say it was a red.

 

[Marshy]

it should be rescinded but it wont be, there was no excessive force, no stamping motion, he was clearly in control of his body as he just carried on running, both feet were high, just ramirez got there later than stephens and caught Stephens sole of boot on way down.

It went from yellow to red because of the injury which was very unlucky, that is just bad officiating.

They put the top man in charge, he messed up but they will back him to the hilt regardless, just like the Barton incident the ref got it wrong but they rarely change the refs decision escpecially such a high profile ref they brought in for this game.

I bet Dean isnt even contacted over the appeal