DailyMail: Cause of Death - Cannabis

[daveinprague]

Some experts say that there is no such thing as mental illness. But people just believe what suits their lifestyle and reduces their feelings of guilt.

Its not a matter of believing something that suits my lifestyle, its a matter of evidence to the contrary. There certainly isnt any guilt.
Some experts need to get famous.... are these the same experts saying there is no such thing as mental health, who believe cannabis causes psychosis? What is pychosis if not a mental health issue?

I think people may blame cannabis for 'relatives who have taken it, and gone on, and developed mental illness, or psychosis' as an excuse to remove any hereditary family problems from the equation..
or looking to blame something other than the relatives, or friends actions..

Nobody starts with cannabis either....lets knock that myth on the head.... i was given alcohol by adults at an early age...long before Id even heard of cannabis.


With two deaths POSSIBLY caused by Cannabis toxicity, out of the many millions that smoke it on a daily basis, I think Ill stick to smoking it, rather than some other intoxicant of choice.

Wh

 

[dougdeep]

Ok. You must be saying that you can't get cancer from smoking Cannabis then. Take care.

 

[daveinprague]

Nope, im not saying you cant get cancer from it... Ive not seen much evidence to that ... but im sure some people, will develop such a thing because of the trigger of cannabis..
Would you get cancer from taking it in the form of a drink, or in food?

My mothers main concern...she was the Emergency Ward sister at the Royal Sussex for many years, is my lungs from smoking cannabis...and cigarettes..as clearly, its not good for you...not the effect of cannabis, which she now accepts, having seen myself, partners, and friends smoking it over the last 30 odd years.

 

[Buzzer]

its a matter of evidence to the contrary. There certainly isnt any guilt.

Guilt? I never suggested there was, did I? I'm not sure why you say that. You have no evidence though, other than flimsy anecdotal evidence of your social circle. It may be that you are right but even you have got to see that is no basis for determining whether it's safe or not.

 

[perseus]

Is he a Nutter or just a ****?

This thread has been an interesting read on a subject that clearly divides opinion rather sharply.

People who say that cannabis should be legalised because "I know loads of people that use it and they are fine" are making the mistake of thinking that because in your experience there is no correlation between cannabis use and psychosis that there must be no correlation at all!

However the scientific community focuses upon analysis of large groups of people and not merely individual anecdotes. As a very recent review on the subject stated: "Epidemiological studies have shown that the association between cannabis and psychosis is robust and consistent across different samples, with compelling evidence for a dose-response relationship." from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24471373

There are countless other high quality reviews and original research articles that link cannabis use (particularly in the adolescent period when the development of the brain is at one of its most active stages [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24345517]) and psychosis in later life.


However there is still debate over whether there is a sufficient level of evidence to suggest a causal link. The big problem is that as far as I am aware the gold standard of medical testing for a medicinal product is through a randomised controlled trial (RCT). To run a full scale RCT of people, randomised at birth to either take cannabis or not take cannabis and otherwise live their lives identically who are preferably twins to remove any environmental or genetic differences; is not possible. Physically, ethically and financially this will never be done.

Cannabis undoubtedly has its supporters, it also has its critics. The medical establishment has spent years trying to work out the truth and currently the prevailing view is that cannabis is a significant factor in developing psychosis, however it is unlikely we will ever really know the truth.

By the way if anyone is interested in medical stuff then it's worth popping over to pubmed or the Cochrane database for the latest high quality, peer reviewed research and developments in current medical science.


Anyway, that's just my two pence worth....

This is the view of the Psi Cops (hlppie parlance). It sounds very plausible, arguable scientific.

If grass devotees stop inhaling the cannabis chemicals, presumably the pychosis (whatever that may be) will go away. Arguably psychosis is a cognitive difference of opinion and life style.

 

[daveinprague]

The 'guilt' thing wasnt directed to you Buzzer, it was for dougdeep.... are you stoned ? ;-)


Its not safe...taking anything into your lungs isnt safe... but if I dont see anybody over the last 30 years turning to hard drugs, or dying because of it, what should I think? Its not just
my circle of friends...ive lived in two countries where its freely available.
There have been TWO deaths caused by cannabis toxicity...supposedly......TWO....world wide... and how many millions of people smoke daily world wide?......that flimsy evidence.

 

[Buzzer]

There have been TWO supposedly cannabis related deaths...TWO....that flimsy evidence.

I'd wager that although you can't extrapolate any meaningful general pattern from one death, the professional opinion of a fully trained coroner carries at least as much weight as a 30-year stoner.

 

[daveinprague]

I'd wager that although you can't extrapolate any meaningful general pattern from one death, the professional opinion of a fully trained coroner carries at least as much weight as a 30-year stoner.

coroners have been wrong in the past...so have stoners ;-)

 

[daveinprague]

There's unlikely to have even been one, let's be honest. There are people all around the world go out of their way to consume as much THC as possible - whether it's supersized bongs or 5oz pure cannabis joints. The young, the old, the weak, the poorly, the heavily inebriated, all kinds of people smoke cannabis on a regular basis and nobody dies directly from it. It's simply not toxic enough.

I would say, on average, in the week, I will smoke 6 or 7 joints in the evening... and its skunk mostly... Im not feeling any ill effects... my medical was passed with flying colours.
I continue to work normally.
For this woman to have smoked half a joint that killed her suggests something underlying to me...


Sat in a 'smoking' bar last night looking around it...
Black people...White people... English, Czech, Americans, Russians, Nigerians, and some other assorted nationalities...
All smoking grass, and enjoying the evening, and each others company. Grass is ok by me.

Im heading home, before im accused by somebody of running away from the argument....but ill pick up later on.

Have a good one, one and all...

 

[drew]

It is quite frankly mind boggling that people are willing to accept that cannabis use is such a bad thing. There are risks with all drugs. Cannabis is the safest by a mile. You have more chance of dying, taking two Paracetamol for a headache. It's all relative and this sensationalist stance is just ludicrous.

Hate to say it but have you got a link to the evidence where someone died from just two paracetamol?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15032614

Coroners don't always make great judgements.

Fail to see why that isn't a great judgement. Did you read the whole article?

 

[nicko31]

I do wonder if they should just legalise it, charge for it and use the money to educate why smoking it ain't a great idea

Instead we have a few million sponsoring organised crime, not great..

 

[JetsetJimbo]

Dave, was that the bar in Zizkov you mentioned to me when I first moved out here? Because I still haven't been there, I really need to pay it a visit at some point. But if you're talking about a different bar in that post, let me know which, because it sounds superb.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

It's the BBC... Need I say more?

Just as, though I detest the daily mail, it was only reporting the coroner's verdict above, here the BBC was only reporting the coroner's verdict.

Cannabis is not the harmless thing that so many people would have you believe, much like alcohol. I am aware of at least two cases, one within my own wider family, where people have developed serious mental health problems through over-use of cannabis.

And no, I have never smoked cannabis, and yes, I do drink alcohol.

 

[daveinprague]

Dave, was that the bar in Zizkov you mentioned to me when I first moved out here? Because I still haven't been there, I really need to pay it a visit at some point. But if you're talking about a different bar in that post, let me know which, because it sounds superb.

scruffy little reggae bar ;-)
https://www.facebook.com/KennysIsland?fref=ts

although, I dont buy my grass there, i go to the next bar up the road before Akropolis... Shotgun Bar.

 

[Notters]

Hate to say it but have you got a link to the evidence where someone died from just two paracetamol?

People have allergic reactions to all sorts of things. This girl lost her FACE.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-back-face-after-reaction-to-Paracetamol.html

 

[melias shoes]

It's the Daily Mail... Need I say more?

I suppose if it was in the guardian it would have credibility?

 

[Del Fenner]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oisoning-smoking-joint-bed.html#ixzz2sE5e7Qpy

Really?

That was next to the headline "As We've Always Suspected, Kindness Causes Cancer".

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

There's unlikely to have even been one, let's be honest. There are people all around the world go out of their way to consume as much THC as possible - whether it's supersized bongs or 5oz pure cannabis joints. The young, the old, the weak, the poorly, the heavily inebriated, all kinds of people smoke cannabis on a regular basis and nobody dies directly from it. It's simply not toxic enough.

We are all unique - one man's meat is another man's poison.

Just because you [and maybe many others] don't die from Cannabis should not give you grounds to call a coroner [presumably from the pathologist report] incompetent suggesting they must have missed another underlying health issue.

I love eating peanuts and could easily claim they are not toxic as me and millions of people all over the world, possibly more than those who smoke cannabis [only a guess], suffer no ill effects, but I'd not be so foolish as to say that because they are not toxic, nobody could ever die from eating them.

 

[drew]

People have allergic reactions to all sorts of things. This girl lost her FACE.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-back-face-after-reaction-to-Paracetamol.html

A trap I fell into! I don't think anyone here is really talking about allergic reactions and I don't believe the implication of the post about dying from an two paracetamol was about an allergic reaction but about toxicity of a drug.

The comments of some of those on here whom I presume are regular users seems to reflect the attitude of smokers in years in the 60s/70s and 80s. I smoke and I'm not dead ergo smoking doesn't cause cancer. The same sort of attitude they had to passive smoking and the denial, for selfish reasons, that it never could cause others problems.

 

[Notters]

A trap I fell into! I don't think anyone here is really talking about allergic reactions and I don't believe the implication of the post about dying from an two paracetamol was about an allergic reaction but about toxicity of a drug.

The comments of some of those on here whom I presume are regular users seems to reflect the attitude of smokers in years in the 60s/70s and 80s. I smoke and I'm not dead ergo smoking doesn't cause cancer. The same sort of attitude they had to passive smoking and the denial, for selfish reasons, that it never could cause others problems.

Nope, they reflect the relative harm of a number of illegal drugs compared to alcohol and cigarettes as shown by Professor Nutt.