Cyclist fatalities in London - what's going on?

[Herr Tubthumper]

Road tax doesn't exist (over here at least). It's a vehicle tax based on fuel emissions.

I have been waiting for this post.

 

[The Spanish]

I must admit it was unintentional. But I do like a good pun. I agree with Sim's assertion that Germany is the best country (handle)bar none.

you are going to continue to pedal this myth eh

 

[teaboy]

The main problem is badly designed infrastructure (especially at Bow Roundabout and at Aldgate.)

People can complain all they like about cyclists going up the left hand side of vehicles, but that's what the road tells them to do. There were inherent design flaws with the cycle 'superhighway' which were highlighted by the LCC before they where built (or more accurately - drawn) that create dangers for cyclists so as to not hold up motor traffic. This is why people are being killed in these specific places.

The vehicles that kill cyclists are HGVs and tipper trucks (driven by people who are paid by the load, so have an incentive to be fast rather than safe). A rush-hour ban on these (like there is in Paris) would help massively.

 

[Simster]

i have done it this morning no problem. its very easy really.

Absolutely right again. You can tell who the people are who actually USE bikes in London.

Cycling in London really isn't that bad at all.

 

[teaboy]

Come and have a drive over here, especially at the weekend, mobs of them riding 5 or 6 abreast and getting abusive when you toot them to form a single line, as the highway rule states.
They generate huge queues of traffic, in their obligatory lycra.
If they observe the rules of the road I haven't a problem, but when the 'I'm in big mob' mentality takes over they are a right pain and make life on the road hell for all others.
Cycle registration and a road tax should be introduced, after all, they want the same rights as a driver so they should pay for it.
Then we will see numbers diminish, with some luck.
Accidents will happen and if more people are participating, then more accidents will happen, unfortunate but a fact of life.

It isn't these lycra-clad riders that are being killed though, is it? Many of those that are riding to work, or to the shops probably don't consider themselves to be "cyclists" at all as they don't fit into your defined stereotype - they're just people going to work, or home to see their kids. The high proportion of young women that are involved in these incidents goes to show how wrong you are.

As an aside, cyclists DO have the same rights to use the road as drivers, or bus passengers or anyone else. EVERYONE pays for the roads through council tax and general taxation. Do you have a similar attitude to drivers not obeying the laws on the road (speeding, using mobile phones, driving without insurance, not giving vulnerable road-users adequate space, etc)?

 

[seagully]

I have been waiting for this post.

Its the favourite argument I hear from the anti-cyclist brigade so its a line I'm used to wheeling out on regular occasions!

 

[Albumen]

Its the favourite argument I hear from the anti-cyclist brigade so its a line I'm used to wheeling out on regular occasions!

I'm waiting for 'they don't wear helmets' cry.

Bike Helmet vs HGV or Bus (main cause for deaths in London)? My head would squash like an eggplant.

 

[seagully]

I'm waiting for 'they don't wear helmets' cry.

Bike Helmet vs HGV or Bus (main cause for deaths in London)? My head would squash like an eggplant.

I overhead a bloke where I work on the phone to a colleague yesterday saying "They (cyclists) deserved to be killed as they never wear reflective clothes or helmets". Lovely chap

 

[The Large One]

I'm waiting for 'they don't wear helmets' cry.

Bike Helmet vs HGV or Bus (main cause for deaths in London)? My head would squash like an eggplant.

When I listen to the cyclists and helmets argument, it puts me in mind of the end of last episode of 'Blackadder Goes Forth' where Blackadder reminds Lt George not to forget his 'stick'.

"Oh yes Sir, wouldn't want to face a machine gun without this..."

 

[seagully]

When I listen to the cyclists and helmets argument, it puts me in mind of the end of last episode of 'Blackadder Goes Forth' where Blackadder reminds Lt George not to forget his 'stick'.

"Oh yes Sir, wouldn't want to face a machine gun without this..."

Haha that is an excellent analogy

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Too many cyclists are taking risks , a split second assessment on stopping behind or undertaking a bus or HGV can cost you your life.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I've been cycling in London for the past 17 years or so, and it's become hellish in the last 8 years or so. Saying that, in the old days, when it felt like it was just me and 30 or so other chaps out on two rickety wheels, cars were a constant threat. But now cycle awareness is hugely raised and drivers do seem to mostly take care because of it, in spite of their sometime rage. No one wants anyone dead.
I think it's a little down to the London mentality though. It's a city of constant bustle and battle and i tend to think many of us do that in any way we travel. The number of people flung off undergrounds by the burlier co-travellers who command space more mightily is countless. It's what every day is to squeeze through tiny gaps and huff in unison at the barger or the brainless holidaymaker reading directions in escalator doors. Maybe it was fun or unnoticeable when young, but the older one gets the more it grates, and there a hell of a lot of over-30 year olds here.
I wouldn't mind taking a cycling test and being certified to continue. There's bound to be things i don't know beyond the obvious STOP AT THE EFFING LIGHTS YOU ANUS and i'll feel safer, as i hope drivers would too, in the knowledge that i am trained to not be such a devil on the road.
About 70% of the beggars on a saddle i see each day think only of themselves, and it is a pain. They give a bad impression and many follow with a what-the-heck feeling that really can only bring about accidents that the drivers will struggle to get over, no matter how physically unharmed they are.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It seems many of the incidents are left turn - so you cannot
really blame unsighted HGV drivers from colliding with cyclists
who don't have the sense to hang back at a left turn. Very, very
sad - but true.

Nonsense. EVERY driver who EVER makes a left turn should ALWAYS ask themselves "Will I hit a cyclist?"

EVERY time you turn left. And the question of who will be to blame if a collision happens is irrelevant.

 

[teaboy]

Nonsense. EVERY driver who EVER makes a left turn should ALWAYS ask themselves "Will I hit a cyclist?"

EVERY time you turn left. And the question of who will be to blame if a collision happens is irrelevant.

This is especially true when turning (right or left) across a cycle lane.

 

[teaboy]

I've been cycling in London for the past 17 years or so, and it's become hellish in the last 8 years or so. Saying that, in the old days, when it felt like it was just me and 30 or so other chaps out on two rickety wheels, cars were a constant threat. But now cycle awareness is hugely raised and drivers do seem to mostly take care because of it, in spite of their sometime rage. No one wants anyone dead.
I think it's a little down to the London mentality though. It's a city of constant bustle and battle and i tend to think many of us do that in any way we travel. The number of people flung off undergrounds by the burlier co-travellers who command space more mightily is countless. It's what every day is to squeeze through tiny gaps and huff in unison at the barger or the brainless holidaymaker reading directions in escalator doors. Maybe it was fun or unnoticeable when young, but the older one gets the more it grates, and there a hell of a lot of over-30 year olds here.
I wouldn't mind taking a cycling test and being certified to continue. There's bound to be things i don't know beyond the obvious STOP AT THE EFFING LIGHTS YOU ANUS and i'll feel safer, as i hope drivers would too, in the knowledge that i am trained to not be such a devil on the road.
About 70% of the beggars on a saddle i see each day think only of themselves, and it is a pain. They give a bad impression and many follow with a what-the-heck feeling that really can only bring about accidents that the drivers will struggle to get over, no matter how physically unharmed they are.

Training and licenses haven't stopped drivers crashing into things.

If you want to do cycle training then it's available through your local council: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11689.aspx

 

[Nibble]

You will never be safe cycling through a major city. FACT. Governments can try and make it as safe as possible, cyclists can play the victim card as many times as they want, unless you ban vehicles from the city you will never be safe cycling there, that's not going to happen so by all means cycle in London but just accept the fact there is a good chance you'll end up with an artic truck wheel where your face used to be.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

you are going to continue to pedal this myth eh

Yes, I think I'm doing a wheely good job.

 

[Nibble]

Fact is when a large vehicle turns left the driver will have a blind spot on the left side. You cannot avoid it. Now, it's impractical for the driver to get out of his cab and check the sides so the onus is on the cyclist to stay well clear. One can debate whose responsibility it is from now til the end of time it won't stop you getting squished if you ignore the facts.

 

[Stat Brother]

Too many cyclists are taking risks , a split second assessment on stopping behind or undertaking a bus or HGV can cost you your life.

But do the cyclists know the risks they are taking.
Undercutting on a left hand turn being the prime example.
I'm sure putting a cyclist behind the wheel of a lorry would completely alter their riding style, and vise versa.

Too often I see my comrades oblivious to the fact they are going up against a vehicle that can easily kill them to death.
All that's required is road & common sense, which has to come from the cyclist as physically they are the ones with the most to lose.

When out and about with all the eye contact, smiling, nodding, waving and thumbs up I do, I must look like a Cbeebies presenter.
But I'm also a gurning loon that doesn't get into 'scrapes' when cycling. (although clearly bot through London in rush hour).

 

[seagully]

But do the cyclists know the risks they are taking.
Undercutting on a left hand turn being the prime example.
I'm sure putting a cyclist behind the wheel of a lorry would completely alter their riding style, and vise versa.

Too often I see my comrades oblivious to the fact they are going up against a vehicle that can easily kill them to death.
All that's required is road & common sense, which has to come from the cyclist as physically they are the ones with the most to lose.

When out and about with all the eye contact, smiling, nodding, waving and thumbs up I do, I must look like a Cbeebies presenter.
But I'm also a gurning loon that doesn't get into 'scrapes' when cycling. (although clearly bot through London in rush hour).

This is definitely the correct attitude to have. The "us vs them" mentality that exists between some cyclists and drivers is ridiculous and unnecessary. Especially when considering that many cyclists are also drivers themselves.