[News] Craig Mackey , cowardly copper

[Commander]

In his career, he would in all likelihood have only been faced with a theoretical situation - it is very easy to say I would do this and that in that situation. None of us knows - even in a job as his or even the Army (there have been many who have crumbled under fire), how we would act in a real situation. I cant blame him for not putting his life on the line, but definitely he should now stand down as he cannot now ask others to do what he has found in himself that he cannot do.

And that is probably the best, most reasoned post in the discussion. Whether you think he should or shouldn't have put his life on the line, it's in the past now, I don't think he can now ask others to, when he chose not to.

 

[LamieRobertson]

In his career, he would in all likelihood have only been faced with a theoretical situation - it is very easy to say I would do this and that in that situation. None of us knows - even in a job as his or even the Army (there have been many who have crumbled under fire), how we would act in a real situation. I cant blame him for not putting his life on the line, but definitely he should now stand down as he cannot now ask others to do what he has found in himself that he cannot do.

 

[Worthing exile]

on £270k a year and due to retire in December on a fat pension.

Slapped wrist and garden leave. I bet you.

 

[wellquickwoody]

If you want the rank then you show leadership, locking yourself in your car whilst one of your men is being killed is simply wrong. He should resign as he can't have any authority left now

Jeez I hate having to do this, but I totally agree.

 

[wellquickwoody]

He also puts his life on the line each and every day for us, including when he was a Bobby on the beat 20 years ago.

Except he didn't?

 

[The Gem]

It’s a good job Lisa Potts didn’t hesitate to consider that she didn’t have any equipment, a lot of nursery school kids would have died. This young lady has more guts in her toenails than Mackey.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...said-the-queen-to-lisa-potts-1293820.html?amp

I have noticed from the posts on this thread that ex- Service personnel are more critical of Mackey than the civvies, is it down to training, attitude, or espirit de Corp.

As an ex-squaddie, its in your DNA to put yourself on the line to help others.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

How can he be best qualified to act when he was unarmed? When two plain-clothed protection officers had run past him with their handguns drawn? What could he possible have added to benefit the situation?

Some people have said he could have acted as a distraction - honestly, how can a 50+ year old man helpfully distract from that situation? Stand on top of the car waving his arms around?

This bloke's job and skill set was to command the response, perhaps back in the day it would have been to wade in, jobs change.

The fact that he was unarmed is not at question, in other attacks members of the public through objects, shouted and acted as a distraction which brought time for the emergency services to act. I’m not expecting him to physically take the guy on but any distraction buys seconds if not minutes.

As to qualified to act. If not him then who? He command any response sat in his car .....

As for your first comment. He is trained to take charge of such a situation. The armed response team will act within their training but will rely on seniors to provide guidance etc.what about the other casualties? What about securing the area, traffic control etc. These would be his areas of responsibility, not the armed response team.
He could have got out of the car and decided he couldnt help the guy who is down, but could bring some calm to the situation and to start liaising with the other emergency services until he was relieved.
How as a an unarmed police officer would you feel if you found out on arrival that a senior officer had been there but had decided to leave .....

Yes it is very easy to criticise but when you pull on a uniform you automatically take on responsibilities that go with that uniform. Sadly He fell short of what is required.

 

[alfredmizen]

As an ex-squaddie, its in your DNA to put yourself on the line to help others.

[MENTION=19800]lawros left foot[/MENTION] knows , hes an ex matelot, not sure if hes seen the golden rivet though

 

[The Gem]

[MENTION=19800]lawros left foot[/MENTION] knows , hes an ex matelot, not sure if hes seen the golden rivet though

Can honestly say I would not have hesitated to try and help in this situation.

 

[Hampden Park]

Can honestly say I would not have hesitated to try and help in this situation.

You coming over to the dark side then percy?:

p.s. its in that far corner, you will have to get on all fours to reach it

 

[blue-shifted]

Does anyone know, how are police officers trained on this? My understanding was that they are trained that if they see a criminal committing a crime, or they saw the public in danger that they immediately challenge and attempt to arrest the criminal.

The fact that the message may be to not challenge the criminal if the public or your colleagues are in immediate danger if you don't have sufficient equipment had never occurred to me.

I certainly hope they are told the expectation is to challenge in some way even if they don't have enough equipment.

I'm trying to remember the real baddie is the knife wielder in this

 

[The Gem]

You coming over to the dark side then percy?:

p.s. its in that far corner, you will have to get on all fours to reach it

Lost me !!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Should all Police officers confront people with weapons when they have no weapons and no body armour themselves with the most likely outcome, their death or serious injury?

You mean like members of the public did during the Borough Market attack ?

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Does anyone know, how are police officers trained on this? My understanding was that they are trained that if they see a criminal committing a crime, or they saw the public in danger that they immediately challenge and attempt to arrest the criminal.

The fact that the message may be to not challenge the criminal if the public or your colleagues are in immediate danger if you don't have sufficient equipment had never occurred to me.

I certainly hope they are told the expectation is to challenge in some way even if they don't have enough equipment.

I'd be amazed if their training isn't heavily laced with considerations of risk management that emphasise avoiding reckless action if it puts themselves or others in danger when the odds of a successful outcome are low.

This is obviously the case with fire fighters, coastguards and others whose role is to protect and serve.

 

[rippleman]

Perhaps an enlightening postscript from the ITV programme last night showing (mostly) bodycam images of police in dangerous situations.

One of the contributors to the programme ,a retired officer, made a fairly lengthy point of the obligation of citizens to assist a police officer and that it was a criminal offence not to assist an officer when requested to do so.

So the police expect civilians with no weapons or training to pitch in if an officer is in trouble. But apparently its all fine and dandy for the acting Met Commissioner to sit quivering in his locked car shitting himself whilst one of his officers is murdered in front of him.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Perhaps an enlightening postscript from the ITV programme last night showing (mostly) bodycam images of police in dangerous situations.

One of the contributors to the programme ,a retired officer, made a fairly lengthy point of the obligation of citizens to assist a police officer and that it was a criminal offence not to assist an officer when requested to do so.

So the police expect civilians with no weapons or training to pitch in if an officer is in trouble. But apparently its all fine and dandy for the acting Met Commissioner to sit quivering in his locked car shitting himself whilst one of his officers is murdered in front of him.

Useful contribution. Not many of us would know when next time a police officer asks for help with tackling a machete wielding lunatic that we are LEGALLY obliged to assist...

 

[Bry Nylon]

...apparently its all fine and dandy for the acting Met Commissioner to sit quivering in his locked car shitting himself whilst one of his officers is murdered in front of him.

How I truly wish His Honour Judge Mark Lucraft QC (the Chief Coroner for the Inquest) had made this exact observation at the end of Sir Craig Mackey's evidence.

 

[portlock seagull]

I'm just glad that you're able to speak for the entire police force.

Certainly more in tune with than you appear to be.

 

[Commander]

Certainly more in tune with than you appear to be.

And evidently most of the rest of the posters on this thread.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Perhaps an enlightening postscript from the ITV programme last night showing (mostly) bodycam images of police in dangerous situations.

One of the contributors to the programme ,a retired officer, made a fairly lengthy point of the obligation of citizens to assist a police officer and that it was a criminal offence not to assist an officer when requested to do so.

So the police expect civilians with no weapons or training to pitch in if an officer is in trouble.

I don't think this is correct. Police advice to civilians in an attack with firearms or weapons is RUN, HIDE, TELL.