[News] Covid response ‘one of UK’s worst ever public health failures’

[Pavilionaire]

Big fan of Rory but I imagine many can't get past his look (and his pro fox hunting stance). Too much emphasis nowadays about how politicians come across on the tv rather than their actual intelligence. Shame he has faded away.

I've never voted Tory in my life but this man has more ability than the whole of Boris's Cabinet put together.

Had he become Tory leader - and the UK not left the EU - you wonder how his government and a Cabinet containing like-minded individuals such as David Gauke, Dominic Grieve, Philip Hammond, David Lidlington, Ken Clark, Stephen Hammond, Margot James, Sam Gyimah, Justine Greening might have got on.

 

[zefarelly]

Is anyone at all shocked by this?

Surely, the most prescient quote of this whole tragic episode was,

“Let the bodies pile high in their thousands “.

He should be in the towers for that alone.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

And I am certain that they will act to prevent the potential explosion. Aukland is 7 times the population of Brighton, and have had 7 covid deaths since may 2020, Brighton has had 7 in the last 30 days, and we are acting like it's over.

I have a Kiwi friend living in London. She is currently trying to get back to NZ for Christmas. Their MIQ (Managed Isolation and Quarantine) is incredibly tough at the minute, even if you a NZ citizen. She told me she is currently at about 14,500 in the queue and unlikely to be back for Christmas based on the way the queue is currently moving and the facilities available in NZ. They may have dropped the ball after a very impressive start but they seem to be taking it very seriously now

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Feel free to correct me, but wasn’t Sage advice it was ok because it was out side

Sage also pushed for delaying the lockdown from memory.

Johnson’s a ****ing clown, but a review should be full and look into every aspect of this - not just the Tories.

4 videos from QT featuring Professor John Ashton dated March 12, tweeted by Dr Gabriel Scally - Public health physician, Visiting Prof of Public Health at Uni of Bristol, former Regional Director of Public Health in England and a member of
@IndependentSage

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1370455906681503746

 

[nicko31]

Still amazes the narrative from many is "Johnson did his best....."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Wgmyl2Z1w

 

[Gwylan]

Other PMs have been May, Cameron, Blair and Major.

I thought we had to call him Dave

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I thought we had to call him Dave

That's what he wanted, but failed.

 

[MJsGhost]

Why are we not looking at what South Korea have done - ✔
The Scientists cannot accurately mathematically model this at this stage - ✔
Experts are experts in narrow areas, don't all agree, and judgements need to be made on their advice - ✔
The politicians role is to take advice and decide strategy - ✔
Most serious epidemic we have faced since the end of WW1 - ✔

These changes need to be made TODAY
The Houses of Parliament should be shut - ✔
The Budget needs to be delayed - ✔
Close the Schools - ✔
Gatherings to be stopped - ✔
People need to WFH - ✔
Self Isolation needs to be introduced - ✔

Hindsight ? Bollocks. This was 14 days before the first lockdown and he had prepared more of a plan for this interview than Johnson and co had for the entire f***ing country



And here's the truth of it. He isn't funny and has slogans like what Boris has :

I'd be surprised if I haven't posted this somewhere on here before...

Rory Stewart on Hedgehogs: 13 minutes which demonstrates how good a PM he could be, but also why he never will be.

So much to like about the man (support of fox hunting aside). What a brain and what an orator!

Worth about 10,000 Boris Johnsons, with a conservative estimate (pun intended)

 

[virtual22]

I assume this is a criticism. But it's negatively effecting all of our lives and this needs to be stressed at every opportunity.

The problem with doing this is that the people who agree with you won't change their mind, neither will the people who disagree. All of the others on here, I would guess the vast majority, are so bored of the whole NSC Brexit point scoring, moaning, endless bickering (from both sides I would add) the messages that may be important about it are now totally lost as our eyes glaze over with boredom and disdain.

Or, it's become so comical you have people people guessing the number of posts, or the user who will bring it up first, which again detracts from your point of doing it haha

 

[MJsGhost]

There is a reason he chose one of his middle names in politics, instead of Alec, Alex or Alexander, and it's clear in this thread.
Other PMs have been May, Cameron, Blair and Major.

He is referred to as Boris, but he's not your mate down the pub. It's all PR and marketing.

He's referred to as the dangerous, duplicitous c**t in my household.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

4 videos from QT featuring Professor John Ashton dated March 12, tweeted by Dr Gabriel Scally - Public health physician, Visiting Prof of Public Health at Uni of Bristol, former Regional Director of Public Health in England and a member of
@IndependentSage

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1370455906681503746

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

I’ve no idea if this is a reliable source, but it’s got details of Sage members pushing the delay.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

'Get Brexit done'+ 'Build back better'+ 'Followed the science' = 'Taking the piss'

 

[Notters]

Book one in the series out now.
Stay tuned for Brexit Response 'one of the UK's worst ever economic planning failures', available in all good book stores, early 2022.

Fresh from the printing presses The UK, 'one of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland's worst collaboration failures.'

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

He's referred to as the dangerous, duplicitous c**t in my household.

But then how does anyone know which cabinet member is being referred to?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

I’ve no idea if this is a reliable source, but it’s got details of Sage members pushing the delay.

I wouldn't trust Dr Jenny Harries as far as I could throw her.

 

[The Clamp]

I totally disagree. I think the main problem this country faces is that Johnson has absolutely no idea what he wants this country to be. When he was mayor of London, he was so in favour in immigration that he wanted to give amnesty to all illegal immigrants, now he lets Prit Patel loose on them. He's in charge of a pro-business party but was quoted as saying "f*** business"; he says Sunak is doing a good job on keeping control of the economy and then backs Kwarteng that the purse strings should be loosened.

To keep it football related, he backed the Super League - until he saw the backlash and then quickly became against it. As people who have dealt with him have said, his view is that of the last person he spoke to.

Starmer doesn't need to have a vision. He (and he's not a solicitor BTW) tries to give off an air of competence, seriousness and calm. He wants to give a contrast with the meretricious charlatan on the opposite benches. Whether it will work or not is another matter but maybe the country needs another Attlee not a pound-shop Churchill.

A fair argument. My opinion?.. You don’t think Johnson knows EXACTLY what he wants the U.K. to be? I do.

A haven for the super-rich to bleed dry. An account he and his chums can draw on, unencumbered by mere fancies such as law or the will of the electorate for as long as they can get away with. And if the working man and democracy gets crushed beyond recovery in the process, so be it.

A party does not attempt to change Parliamentary law to limit the electorate’s ability to vote them out or Parliaments right to hold them to account unless they have a goal and vision in mind.
It might not seem like he knows what he is doing. Like he has no plan.

Make no mistake. Boris Johnson knows EXACTLY what he wants the U.K. to become.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yep, happy to say that is one area our government managed to get pretty much spot on. Having said that, though, isn't it widely accepted that the reason for that is because it was taken *out* of the hands of Hancock and effectively run without direct government involvement for a long enough period that it could get itself firmly sorted out.

This is correct. Boris can, however take some credit for someone in his government agreeing to (because it was certainly not their own idea) buy up as much vaccine from whatever source as humanly possible, two fingers up the the EU and all that. His total credit there amounts to having appointed someone who pressed the button to 'confirm purchase'. What a guy. Decisive. For that he deserves a knighthood, at last making him an equal to Sir Kier. It's all absolutely heartwarming stuff.

Edit, cue someone from the moldy brain gang to pipe up, helpfully, that 'had Jeremy Corbyn....etc.'

 

[Audax]

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

I’ve no idea if this is a reliable source, but it’s got details of Sage members pushing the delay.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what a fully independent inquiry (assuming one ever happens) concludes. I'm immediately taking a pinch of salt with that article given the stories that were floating around about experts being excluded from the briefings if they refused to tow the government line. I also recall Whitty and Vallance both being quite evasive on some questions where an entirely honest answer probably would have left the (prime) minister they were sharing the stage with looking the fool.

In that respect, I see the roles that Whitty and Vallance played as being primarily political rather than independent expert. They both mentioned on multiple occasions that the role of Sage was to provide advice, data, analysis etc and the role of the government was to make the decisions. I always read into that that they didn't always agree with the decisions that had been made.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

I’ve no idea if this is a reliable source, but it’s got details of Sage members pushing the delay.

What social media pandemic experts mean, when they say ... 'the government should have followed scientific advice' is all the bits of advice they agree with while conveniently ignoring all the times they themselves were expressing views at odds with scientific advice. Another problem for critics intent on making this a party political matter is the broadly similar (sometimes worse) outcomes in Scotland and Wales where the SNP and Labour were in power, often taking different decisions that the critics supported. If it was blatantly obvious (as critics suggest) the UK government was making serious errors from the start then why didn't we see Sturgeon and Drakeford take drastically different decisions earlier in the crisis?

As the report, Chairmen stated .. "The UK has combined some big achievements with some big mistakes. It is vital to learn from both,"

 

[Audax]

What social media pandemic experts mean, when they say ... 'the government should have followed scientific advice' is all the bits of advice they agree with while conveniently ignoring all the times they themselves were expressing views at odds with scientific advice. Another problem for critics intent on making this a party political matter is the broadly similar (sometimes worse) outcomes in Scotland and Wales where the SNP and Labour were in power, often taking different decisions that the critics supported. If it was blatantly obvious (as critics suggest) the UK government was making serious errors from the start then why didn't we see Sturgeon and Drakeford take drastically different decisions earlier in the crisis?

As the report, Chairmen stated .. "The UK has combined some big achievements with some big mistakes. It is vital to learn from both,"

Drakeford and Sturgeon did take differing decisions at various points. However, they aren't fully independent - in some areas, they were reliant on Westminster and that played a role in what decisions they could feasibly make. Let's not forget that Sturgeon at several points announced new measure a day or two before Johnson announced the same (or broadly similar) measure - resulting in Tory-apologists attacking her for diverging from Westminster policy and/or for "jumping the gun".

The difficulty for both of them is that Wales and Scotland are both relatively minor populations compared to England. Given the Westminster policies that were followed, in many respects their hands were tied. They couldn't, for example, completely close their borders (although Wales made a good attempt at doing so) and prevent incursion of the virus via their land borders. From memory both were stricter with international travel restrictions, and both were less keen on easing lockdowns (especially at Christmas).

But, once again, there's only so much they could do when their populations were also being communicated with by Boris. As much as they are devolved administrations, they are not independent administrations. Diverging too far from Westminster policy risked too much in terms of creating confusion in the population (as it is, I think that's happened anyway!)