[News] Covid response ‘one of UK’s worst ever public health failures’

[nicko31]

This is correct. Boris can, however take some credit for someone in his government agreeing to (because it was certainly not their own idea) buy up as much vaccine from whatever source as humanly possible, two fingers up the the EU and all that. His total credit there amounts to having appointed someone who pressed the button to 'confirm purchase'. What a guy. Decisive. For that he deserves a knighthood, at last making him an equal to Sir Kier. It's all absolutely heartwarming stuff.

Edit, cue someone from the moldy brain gang to pipe up, helpfully, that 'had Jeremy Corbyn....etc.'

Think "Dame" Kate Bingham is the name you're looking for, that and the NHS infrastructure enabled a decent rollout.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Is it about point scoring though? A quick count suggests that more than half of the posts on this thread are immediately dismissing the report. I haven't had a chance to read it yet let alone make my mind up.

to be fair nor have the people dismissing it....

 

[Wardy's twin]

Do you believe that the authorities in South Korea might be a little more direct in their enforcement policies than those of the UK?

Civil liberties and all that.

civil liberties are no good if you are dead......

So if we rerun WW2...

Warden - 'Close your curtains as the enemy might see the light and bomb us

Householder - 'You are infringing my civil liberties I want them open and you can f*ck off with that gas mask I have an exception '

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Drakeford and Sturgeon did take differing decisions at various points. However, they aren't fully independent - in some areas, they were reliant on Westminster and that played a role in what decisions they could feasibly make. Let's not forget that Sturgeon at several points announced new measure a day or two before Johnson announced the same (or broadly similar) measure - resulting in Tory-apologists attacking her for diverging from Westminster policy and/or for "jumping the gun".

The difficulty for both of them is that Wales and Scotland are both relatively minor populations compared to England. Given the Westminster policies that were followed, in many respects their hands were tied. They couldn't, for example, completely close their borders (although Wales made a good attempt at doing so) and prevent incursion of the virus via their land borders. From memory both were stricter with international travel restrictions, and both were less keen on easing lockdowns (especially at Christmas).

But, once again, there's only so much they could do when their populations were also being communicated with by Boris. As much as they are devolved administrations, they are not independent administrations. Diverging too far from Westminster policy risked too much in terms of creating confusion in the population (as it is, I think that's happened anyway!)

Mmmmm not sure that's entirely accurate. The biggest single measure (until vaccines arrived) any government could take in reducing infection rates was enforcing and varying the conditions/timings of lockdowns which the Scottish and Welsh gov could do. They also (I think) had complete autonomy to act to protect care homes and close schools? I'm also not sure there is any evidence that border crossings were driving infection rates in either Scotland or Wales.

 

[portslade seagull]

The government was warned before Cheltenham Races and the Liverpool match were played. Both went ahead.

Still can't believe that they were allowed spectators, absolutely mad decision

 

[Is it PotG?]

civil liberties are no good if you are dead......

So if we rerun WW2...

Warden - 'Close your curtains as the enemy might see the light and bomb us

Householder - 'You are infringing my civil liberties I want them open and you can f*ck off with that gas mask I have an exception '

I just can't help thinking that if BoJo & Co had locked us all in at that stage, some folks would have been stapling themselves together on motorways and such like

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Drakeford and Sturgeon did take differing decisions at various points. However, they aren't fully independent - in some areas, they were reliant on Westminster and that played a role in what decisions they could feasibly make. Let's not forget that Sturgeon at several points announced new measure a day or two before Johnson announced the same (or broadly similar) measure - resulting in Tory-apologists attacking her for diverging from Westminster policy and/or for "jumping the gun".

The difficulty for both of them is that Wales and Scotland are both relatively minor populations compared to England. Given the Westminster policies that were followed, in many respects their hands were tied. They couldn't, for example, completely close their borders (although Wales made a good attempt at doing so) and prevent incursion of the virus via their land borders. From memory both were stricter with international travel restrictions, and both were less keen on easing lockdowns (especially at Christmas).

But, once again, there's only so much they could do when their populations were also being communicated with by Boris. As much as they are devolved administrations, they are not independent administrations. Diverging too far from Westminster policy risked too much in terms of creating confusion in the population (as it is, I think that's happened anyway!)

Sturgeon was telling everyone she could and would shut them:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....t-rule-out-closing-border-england-3134666?amp

They could also close airport etc

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It'll certainly be interesting to see what a fully independent inquiry (assuming one ever happens) concludes. I'm immediately taking a pinch of salt with that article given the stories that were floating around about experts being excluded from the briefings if they refused to tow the government line. I also recall Whitty and Vallance both being quite evasive on some questions where an entirely honest answer probably would have left the (prime) minister they were sharing the stage with looking the fool.

In that respect, I see the roles that Whitty and Vallance played as being primarily political rather than independent expert. They both mentioned on multiple occasions that the role of Sage was to provide advice, data, analysis etc and the role of the government was to make the decisions. I always read into that that they didn't always agree with the decisions that had been made.

My issue with some of sage (whitty and vallance didn’t do this) is they were happy to be on sage, yet talk to the press every 5 minutes - do MOD staffers do this?

 

[timbha]

My issue with some of sage (whitty and vallance didn’t do this) is they were happy to be on sage, yet talk to the press every 5 minutes - do MOD staffers do this?

Agreed. The back covering, back stabbing and covid started almost simultaneously

 

[Since1982]

Still can't believe that they were allowed spectators, absolutely mad decision

Particularly the Liverpool Madrid game. Matches in Spain were already being played behind closed doors yet we allowed 3k Madrid supporters coming from a known virus hot spot to enter the country and attend the game. That single act alone should have been enough for resignations / sackings.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I just can't help thinking that if BoJo & Co had locked us all in at that stage, some folks would have been stapling themselves together on motorways and such like

They might but like other demonstrators they would be moved on.... eventually

 

[NooBHA]

And it's an inquiry led by Tories. Will this finally put a stop to all the "Boris did the best he could nonsense"?

Betty in Wigan doesn't care. She loves how he does his hair so she will still be voting for him next Election.

Blue Rinse and repeat

 

[rigton70]

For balance, there was huge evidence and practical knowledge of how to deal with pan-regional SARS/MERS epidemics in Asia. We (Europe/US) did not listen. The World Health Organisation, allegedly neutered by China and Trump-demonisation, was unable to assert its message too. Governments led by non-detail leaders, focussed on more "Pressing" domestic issues, drove a narrative that said it was nothing to worry about. Many failings. Many lessons.

I have always said the WHO have a lot to answer for.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Betty in Wigan doesn't care. She loves how he does his hair so she will still be voting for him next Election.

Blue Rinse and repeat

Has she been double jabbed with a booster chaser?

 

[NooBHA]

Has she been double jabbed with a booster chaser?

Yep and sporting a " Bag for Life " outside Asda the last time she was spotted

 

[Pevenseagull]

Have we got Hancock being appointed UN 'special envoy' for covid response and economic development for Africa ... or some such bollocks?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

The biggest travesty about this whole sorry affair is that it should never have been allowed to be a single party/policy crisis. We should have adopted a cross party government with the best minds forming policy and practice.

The problem though, was the government (Boris), clearly believed this wasn’t serious and wouldn’t happen here, until it was way too late and was then caught like a rabbit in the headlights of a fast approaching pandemic, unable to move out of harms way, not knowing which way to run for safety.


When this is all done, or at a point where we really can “live with it” - I predict “lessons will be learned”, we will stock up on PPE, testing systems will be financed and other measures improved, until no further immediate pandemic occurs, then we will gradually withdraw funding and lose interest and get caught with our pants down - again!

 

[heathgate]

I agree, in hindsight, a quicker lockdown may have been more prudent.

Enforcement/compliance would have been interesting, our great nation might have been a little reluctant in the early days given that even with what we know now, some still refuse to toe the line.

We went into lockdown a full 24 hours after Germany for example, a nation that was lauded for its response to Covid....

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[heathgate]

Do you believe that the authorities in South Korea might be a little more direct in their enforcement policies than those of the UK?

Civil liberties and all that.

They are more authoritarian, the population more compliant... add in the existing virus experience and process familiarity... massive head start.

Main failing of our scientific community was not taking some of those experiences into their own considerations..

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[heathgate]

I’m not sure anybody dismissed the report, did they ? From my reading of the thread everyone seems to agree with it.

Indeed, its balanced .... it's just the headlines drag out and embellish with emotive language.

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