Could be interesting... Dispatches C4 tomoorrow - Albion to be heavily featured

[Guinness Boy]

So by your reasoning shouting out something like, "you're behaving like a ******" would be acceptable

Er no. I've absolutely no idea how you've got that out of my post.

Are you going to tell us if you consider being called gay insulting or did you conveniently leave that part out of your answer?

 

[Twinkle Toes]

They're allowed to get really offended by other people being offended and not get the irony.

Ah, right you is. Perhaps I should apologise then for my potentially heterosexist, racist, comments - seeing as we're all just trying to get along now. 'Tis my bad.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Behind You

Homophobe!

 

[The Oldman]

I may be an old fuddy duddy but I do find offensive the targetting of a single woman as a "slag" and "does she take it up the arse" as happened again at Millwall.

 

[Creaky]

Er no. I've absolutely no idea how you've got that out of my post.

Are you going to tell us if you consider being called gay insulting or did you conveniently leave that part out of your answer?

I got that from your post because you said a shout such as, "get up you poof", would in essence be fine as long as the player it was aimed at wasn't a homosexual. In other words implying that the player was behaving in a stereotypical way common to gays was fine. Yes, doing so is insulting, irrespective of sexual orientation. Being called gay isn't insulting but that's not what being called a poof is doing.

In exactly the same way that the shout I suggested, "You're behaving like a ******", is insulting irrespective of the colour of the skin of the person it is aimed at.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I got that from your post because you said a shout such as, "get up you poof", would in essence be fine as long as the player it was aimed at wasn't a homosexual. In other words implying that the player was behaving in a stereotypical way common to gays was fine. Yes, doing so is insulting, irrespective of sexual orientation. Being called gay isn't insulting but that's not what being called a poof is doing.

In exactly the same way that the shout I suggested, "You're behaving like a ******", is insulting irrespective of the colour of the skin of the person it is aimed at.

Blimey. Do you write diversity training courses or something? You're thinking about this way too much.

Just as gangsta rappers have taken back '******' so I have heard gay friends of mine refer to themselves as 'gays' and 'poofs'. I have never seen a single one of them roll round on the floor clutching their ankles though the last time I went to a gay dance club there were a couple of them on all fours.

 

[Creaky]

Blimey. Do you write diversity training courses or something? You're thinking about this way too much.

Just as gangsta rappers have taken back '******' so I have heard gay friends of mine refer to themselves as 'gays' and 'poofs'. I have never seen a single one of them roll round on the floor clutching their ankles though the last time I went to a gay dance club there were a couple of them on all fours.

Yes 'gangsta rappers' have 'taken back' what many euphemistically call the 'N' word. It isn't the word itself that is insulting but the connotations attached to it and that is why in general conversation it is no longer acceptable to use it. This wasn't always the case but society has realised its use is no longer generally acceptable - drink driving didn't use to be so generally condemned as it is today - society's attitudes change over time and they are changing with respect to derogatory words and phrases based on a person's sexual orientation.

You may not like it, you may fight against it, but times are changing.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes 'gangsta rappers' have 'taken back' what many euphemistically call the 'N' word. It isn't the word itself that is insulting but the connotations attached to it and that is why in general conversation it is no longer acceptable to use it. This wasn't always the case but society has realised its use is no longer generally acceptable - drink driving didn't use to be so generally condemned as it is today - society's attitudes change over time and they are changing with respect to derogatory words and phrases based on a person's sexual orientation.

You may not like it, you may fight against it, but times are changing.

You make it sound like I'm dying to say them out loud just to be naughty. I think it's great that insulting someone for something they can't help is increasingly socially unacceptable. I just don't think it should be illegal, nor do I think it's fair to focus on football.

 

[beardy gull]

http://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/news/article/club-statement-c4-dispatches-040314-1398273.aspx

Fair play......

 

[Creaky]

You make it sound like I'm dying to say them out loud just to be naughty. I think it's great that insulting someone for something they can't help is increasingly socially unacceptable. I just don't think it should be illegal, nor do I think it's fair to focus on football.

I think you are still missing the point - it's not who it is aimed at that makes certain words insulting but the actual words themselves beacuse of the attitudes linked to those words.

Should it be illegal to use such insults? - that's a different question but I guess the majority in this country believe that discrimination in employment, education, housing etc based on the colour of a person's skin, on their sexual orientation, gender or religion should be illegal. If this is the case it seems quite logical that using derogatory words linked to those attributes in a manner intended to insult should also be illegal.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think you are still missing the point - it's not who it is aimed at that makes certain words insulting but the actual words themselves beacuse of the attitudes linked to those words.

Should it be illegal to use such insults? - that's a different question but I guess the majority in this country believe that discrimination in employment, education, housing etc based on the colour of a person's skin, on their sexual orientation, gender or religion should be illegal. If this is the case it seems quite logical that using derogatory words linked to those attributes in a manner intended to insult should also be illegal.

No it shouldn't. It's the thin end of the wedge and it raises huge concerns with regards to civil liberties. Who gets to choose what is and isn't acceptable? Is c**t acceptable (and I have to obfuscate that on here)? If so should it be illegal? How about fanny then? Wanker? Etc etc.

I write and I like writing and I want to be free to use whichever word I like in whatever context. If you don't like it don't buy the book or read the fanzine or log on to the site. And if you're genuinely offended by " we can see you holding hands" to the point where you want the singers arrested I'd side with bushy and Woody and say football's not for you.

I get it just fine. I just fundamentally disagree with you.

 

[Nibble]

No it shouldn't. It's the thin end of the wedge and it raises huge concerns with regards to civil liberties. Who gets to choose what is and isn't acceptable? Is c**t acceptable (and I have to obfuscate that on here)? If so should it be illegal? How about fanny then? Wanker? Etc etc.

I write and I like writing and I want to be free to use whichever word I like in whatever context. If you don't like it don't buy the book or read the fanzine or log on to the site. And if you're genuinely offended by " we can see you holding hands" to the point where you want the singers arrested I'd side with bushy and Woody and say football's not for you.

I get it just fine. I just fundamentally disagree with you.

I think if you stood on the street or in a stadium and were repeatedly shouting the C word then yes, it would be deemed unacceptable. I am not adverse to effing and jeffing but it would get on my nerves if it was being done too much around me.

 

[Creaky]

No it shouldn't. It's the thin end of the wedge and it raises huge concerns with regards to civil liberties. Who gets to choose what is and isn't acceptable? Is c**t acceptable (and I have to obfuscate that on here)? If so should it be illegal? How about fanny then? Wanker? Etc etc.

I write and I like writing and I want to be free to use whichever word I like in whatever context. If you don't like it don't buy the book or read the fanzine or log on to the site. And if you're genuinely offended by " we can see you holding hands" to the point where you want the singers arrested I'd side with bushy and Woody and say football's not for you.

I get it just fine. I just fundamentally disagree with you.

None of that explains why, as you said in an earlier post, monkey chants at a match are unacceptable.

That post and the one above seem to be at odds with each other.

If you find monkey chanting unacceptable do you believe that those partaking in such behaviour should be arrested, ejected from the ground or just ignored

 

[Guinness Boy]

None of that explains why, as you said in an earlier post, monkey chants at a match are unacceptable.

That post and the one above seem to be at odds with each other.

If you find monkey chanting unacceptable do you believe that those partaking in such behaviour should be arrested, ejected from the ground or just ignored

So you missed the post where I said there should be a line but that line was too far to the left

And to answer monkey chanters should be ridiculed.

 

[Creaky]

So you missed the post where I said there should be a line but that line was too far to the left

And to answer monkey chanters should be ridiculed.

I agree, there is a line and I guess the difference between you and I is the point at where that line should be drawn and what the consequences of crossing that line should be.

 

[Deanbha]

Okay, I,m gonna say it, had enough of being too polite to some people, I'm coming out..........as someone who is fed up to the back teeth of the whinging middle class new breed of football fans.

I aim this at those who are offended by ever so slightly risque football songs, those who are willing to report fellow fans for swearing, those who argue that banter is such a rubbish terminology, those who think that football needs to change to suit them, those who refuse to believe that gay friends of mine laugh at how precocious Brighton fans must be getting offended at opposition songs, and especially those who say that they are considering staying away unless football changes its ways.

Stay away, go, don't bother coming back. Those that remain will have a truly more football experience for it, passion, excitement, noise, colour, tears and joy. those that object to this should go watch snooker, take their kids to the gymkana, and on Saturday afternoon perhaps go to the cinema.

There, said it, and don't expect an apology.

This, this and bloody well this!

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think if you stood on the street or in a stadium and were repeatedly shouting the C word then yes, it would be deemed unacceptable. I am not adverse to effing and jeffing but it would get on my nerves if it was being done too much around me.

But that's how the word is being used and not the word itself. You're right, repeated use would and should get on your nerves but a well placed one in a rant emphasises humour or annoyance or provides a humorous or shocking synonym for lady bits. The word itself should not be illegal and it hopefully stands to reason that making some uses of it illegal is subjective and open to interpretation?

 

[LamieRobertson]

http://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/news/article/club-statement-c4-dispatches-040314-1398273.aspx

Fair play......

Yes thats what i thought

 

[Triggaaar]

Because monkey chants were aimed at individual black players.

That is not the only reason they were unacceptable. They weren't just an insult to the player the chant was aimed at, they were an insult to all black people.

These chants are aimed at a group of fans who have heard it all before and in general don't think being called gay is an insult.

The dimwits that chant the abuse may be aiming it at fans that don't care, but they're actually insulting gay people in general.

As for 'get up you poof' if you read all my posts you'd see I thought that attacks on individual fans and players is exactly what should be being tackled.

I have heard gay friends of mine refer to themselves as 'gays' and 'poofs'. I have never seen a single one of them roll round on the floor clutching their ankles

So the phrase is suggesting that rolling around feigning injury is gay like behaviour, but you realise that gay people don't actually behave like that. So why say it?

 

[Guinness Boy]

That is not the only reason they were unacceptable. They weren't just an insult to the player the chant was aimed at, they were an insult to all black people.

Agreed but where do you stop and why? Do all scousers really live in slums and bin dip? Is it acceptable to insult fat people with pie chants?

The dimwits that chant the abuse may be aiming it at fans that don't care, but they're actually insulting gay people in general.

Really? Holding hands and bum sex is offensive is it?

So the phrase is suggesting that rolling around feigning injury is gay like behaviour, but you realise that gay people don't actually behave like that. So why say it?

I haven't