CORBYN, McDONNELL AND LIVINGSTONE.

[Hampster Gull]

And the members then vote in a secret ballot, which the Union leaders have no idea who voted for who. How much notice do you think the members take?
Well, OK, fair enough, you probably think they're all brainwashed, but you'd be surprised, I'm sure, at how many Union members don't do as they're 'advised'.

I clearly don't think they're brainwashed! I have alot of experience of those at the top of unions and know that they do influence, indeed why write otherise (at their unions expense when most struggle with money)? Many will ignore, many wont

 

[GT49er]

I love you guys, I really do!

Yeh right. "You guys". Still stereotyping, eh? Universal suffrage has a lot to answer for!

 

[Soulman]

Labour set for bloody nose at Oldham ballot box. Probably just scaremongering we shall see.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/labour-set-for-bloody-nose-at-oldham-ballot-box/

 

[Hampster Gull]

Labour set for bloody nose at Oldham ballot box. Probably just scaremongering we shall see.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/labour-set-for-bloody-nose-at-oldham-ballot-box/

I cant see them losing this, i do not believe they have fallen that far

 

[GT49er]

I clearly don't think they're brainwashed! I have alot of experience of those at the top of unions and know that they do influence, indeed why write otherise (at their unions expense when most struggle with money)? Many will ignore, many wont

Yeh, sorry - went off on the wrong track there with the thinking they're brainwashed bit. But seriously question how much real influence Trade Union leaders have over their members now.

 

[jakarta]

So, come on then. Tell us all. Just how are conservative candidates more democratically selected? Giving equal value to all candidates - as in "either Eton or Harrow, or Oxford or Cambridge, will do" - is not necessarily democracy!

I'm not a Tory Party Member so have no knowledge on how they are originally selected.

My MP was clearly dropped into a rock solid Tory seat (Arundel & South Downs) that even as an openly gay man he couldn't lose!

What I am, however, is a Democrat and think that the only people that should remove sitting MPs are their voters and not by being de-selected by their Party.

And yes that is exactly what the Tories did with Howard Flight in this constituency and it was equally wrong.

 

[GT49er]

Labour set for bloody nose at Oldham ballot box. Probably just scaremongering we shall see.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/labour-set-for-bloody-nose-at-oldham-ballot-box/

Funny that - The Sun suggesting a bloody nose for Labour if UKIP win Oldham. Of course, it won't be any sort of a bloody nose for the Tories if they can't win back a seat from Labour-in-disarray, will it? Or any sort of bloody nose for Cameron if the electorate suspect that his renegotiations with eh EU will turn out to be nothing more than a bit of waffling............

Sorry, forgot for a moment that The Sun was all about impartial journalism. Sorry - did I just write 'journalism' in the same sentence as ;The Sun'?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I can't think of a more open goal than the one presented by the Tories at the moment...and what do labour do? Another Michael foot moment.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Yeh right. "You guys". Still stereotyping, eh? Universal suffrage has a lot to answer for!

Forever offended, marvellous stuff.

 

[GT49er]

I'm not a Tory Party Member so have no knowledge on how they are originally selected.

My MP was clearly dropped into a rock solid Tory seat (Arundel & South Downs) that even as an openly gay man he couldn't lose!

What I am, however, is a Democrat and think that the only people that should remove sitting MPs are their voters and not by being de-selected by their Party.

And yes that is exactly what the Tories did with Howard Flight in this constituency and it was equally wrong.

That would be Howard Flight, from Magdalene College, Cambridge then, would it?!

 

[Soulman]

Funny that - The Sun suggesting a bloody nose for Labour if UKIP win Oldham. Of course, it won't be any sort of a bloody nose for the Tories if they can't win back a seat from Labour-in-disarray, will it? Or any sort of bloody nose for Cameron if the electorate suspect that his renegotiations with eh EU will turn out to be nothing more than a bit of waffling............

Sorry, forgot for a moment that The Sun was all about impartial journalism. Sorry - did I just write 'journalism' in the same sentence as ;The Sun'?

Sorry about the source, as for your continual bringing the Tories failings into a thread about the 3 Labour muskateers, the Tories have no real competition whilst this tit is leader of the opposition. A genuine contender who gets the support of those disillusioned with the policies of this government would be nice, then the Tory failings can be dealt with, at the moment the voters must be gutted there is no competition, no contest.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm not a Tory Party Member so have no knowledge on how they are originally selected.

My MP was clearly dropped into a rock solid Tory seat (Arundel & South Downs) that even as an openly gay man he couldn't lose!

What I am, however, is a Democrat and think that the only people that should remove sitting MPs are their voters and not by being de-selected by their Party.

And yes that is exactly what the Tories did with Howard Flight in this constituency and it was equally wrong.

I totally agree. It's totally and absolutely up to the voters. They can vote for anyone they want. Equally, we the Labour Party can vote for who we want to represent us. Just because we might choose to change who represents us, or deselect as some might say, it doesn't mean the deselected person can't stand again. If the deselected person is the best person then surely they'll win again; cream rises to the top and all that.

 

[jakarta]

I totally agree. It's totally and absolutely up to the voters. They can vote for anyone they want. Equally, we the Labour Party can vote for who we want to represent us. Just because we might choose someone different to represent us, or deselect as some might say, it doesn't mean the deselected person can't stand again.

You're my Bessie mate in disguise Herr T...

I actually admire Corbyn, he stands for a historical part of the Labour movement, I just don't think that they will be an effective Opposition which is what they have to be (for all our sakes Left & Right) for the next four years.

 

[GT49er]

Sorry about the source, as for your continual bringing the Tories failings into a thread about the 3 Labour muskateers, the Tories have no real competition whilst this tit is leader of the opposition. A genuine contender who gets the support of those disillusioned with the policies of this government would be nice, then the Tory failings can be dealt with, at the moment the voters must be gutted there is no competition, no contest.

A UKIP success at Oldham would be an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties, make no bones about that.
Clearly, the Blairite (Tory-Lite) Labour were not providing the Tories with any real opposition. How things work out with Labour with Corbyn as leader remains to be seen; he will not be Prime Minister, I'm sure (he won't still be the leader in 2015).What Labour will look like, I don't know - nor if it will appeal to voters. But the selection of Corbyn as Labour leader came very much from a left field (in more ways than one!) perspective, and the vitriol and invective poured out by the establishment and its chums in the press indicate just how alarmed they are. Not at the prospect of JC becoming PM, but at the clear and unequivocal sign that the electorate is p****d off with the establishment, and becoming more and more likely to vote for anything against it; probably not Corbyn, but something (no idea what yet - although UKIP is still a possibility I guess) equally disturbing to their self-serving status quo.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're my Bessie mate in disguise Herr T...

I actually admire Corbyn, he stands for a historical part of the Labour movement, I just don't think that they will be an effective Opposition which is what they have to be (for all our sakes Left & Right) for the next four years.

I'm pleased you can feel my love

I think it's way to early to judge Corbyn's Labour. It's a radical change of direction and philosophy and there will be some pain and bloodshed. I'd be more worried if there wasn't. The party will take a while to settle. Time will tell.

 

[Soulman]

A UKIP success at Oldham would be an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties, make no bones about that.
Clearly, the Blairite (Tory-Lite) Labour were not providing the Tories with any real opposition. How things work out with Labour with Corbyn as leader remains to be seen; he will not be Prime Minister, I'm sure (he won't still be the leader in 2015).What Labour will look like, I don't know - nor if it will appeal to voters. But the selection of Corbyn as Labour leader came very much from a left field (in more ways than one!) perspective, and the vitriol and invective poured out by the establishment and its chums in the press indicate just how alarmed they are. Not at the prospect of JC becoming PM, but at the clear and unequivocal sign that the electorate is p****d off with the establishment, and becoming more and more likely to vote for anything against it; probably not Corbyn, but something (no idea what yet - although UKIP is still a possibility I guess) equally disturbing to their self-serving status quo.

I don't think UKIP stand much chance of winning sadly, but to say it would be "an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties" is confusing, this is Oldham we are talking about, a northern safe Labour seat with a 14,000+ majority..... i think the slap in the face for one party only.

 

[glasfryn]

You're my Bessie mate in disguise Herr T...

I actually admire Corbyn, he stands for a historical part of the Labour movement, I just don't think that they will be an effective Opposition which is what they have to be (for all our sakes Left & Right) for the next four years.

so this is why all the tory boys are panicking is it
constantly talking about JC .........deflecting from the shite they are now in

 

[GT49er]

I totally agree. It's totally and absolutely up to the voters.

That's the trouble. It isn't really, is it? They can vote for a candidate, certainly, but it will be a candidate who is standing for a party, so what they're really voting for is a package, the contents of which they have no control over really.
Party 1 offers policies A, B and C. Hmm - I like B and C, but don't agree with A.
Party 2 offers policies A, B (the same) and D. Don't want A, like B (as before) and quite like D.
So which party do I vote for? Either way I'm voting for policy A, which I fundamentally don't agree with.

 

[Ernest]

Latest poll tonight

Tories 37%

Labour 35%

 

[GT49er]

I don't think UKIP stand much chance of winning sadly, but to say it would be "an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties" is confusing, this is Oldham we are talking about, a northern safe Labour seat with a 14,000+ majority..... i think the slap in the face for one party only.

No, I think "Oh gawd, we can't even win a seat off Corbyn's Labour in a by election" would be a big blow to the Tories. Not that they wouldn't try to put a spin on it, of course.............