CORBYN, McDONNELL AND LIVINGSTONE.

[WATFORD zero]

Nice try.

No trying. Although i'm no Steve Foster (i'm guessing very few are), it's nice to see that people like you and me, who have worked hard, finally get our just deserts

 

[jakarta]

The party members have sent the party to the left but the MP's are still firmly to the centre right. If he can win that battle (or purge the party like a good Marxist) then I think he'll have a chance of laying out an alternative. .

Ah, so deselecting Labour MP's voted into power by their Constituents is the New Politics is it?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Wow , another Corbyn thread, do all the politics forums have loads of threads about the Albion ?

Oh bless! All those touting Corbyn as the saviour of Labour, and repeatedly slagging off the DEMOCRATICLY ELECTED government immediately after the election now don't like having their noses rubbed in it. Well hard blxxdy luck! You were so confident of victory at the polls, so far from magnanimous in defeat, and so repeatedly whinging that the Tories were doing exactly what was voted for by the electorate, and oh so cock sure when Jesus, oops sorry JC, became leader.

Well stuff you lot, enjoy your humble pie, and please carry on whinging as it just makes the election result evermore pleasing.

:raspberry:

 

[Tarpon]

I'm happy to answer. Corbin was always going to have to fight an internal battle first. The PLP aren't fans of his. You only have to follow the tweets of the Blairites to see them attempting to undermine him at every turn. Locally Tim Macpherson and Ivor Caplin are good examples. The party members have sent the party to the left but the MP's are still firmly to the centre right. If he can win that battle (or purge the party like a good Marxist) then I think he'll have a chance of laying out an alternative. Osborne is failing so miserably (by his own standards) that people may be open to that. Pre Corbyn, Labour didn't offer an alternative, they were merely Tory lite.

I for one hope that he can. I don't know if he'll win an election but I hope at the very least he'll open up sensible, engaged and informed debate , something we rarely see anymore.

Unless Corbyn can maintain momentum and build a significant popular movement behind him the chances of him getting any real platform and opportunity to set out an alternative are very slim indeed. The establishment and their media have hardly had to break sweat to date and should Corbyn show any signs of real progress they will be utterly ruthless and destroy him and his ideas without hesitation.

In the interim I find it sad (but not surprising) that many cannot see the value that an opposition, offering real alternatives and seeking to heighten the level of political debate brings. Like him or loathe him Corbyn has risen recently on the back of disenchantment and distrust in the institutions and individuals that govern our country. It goes beyond him as an individual and it is worth noting and remembering that he represents many who feel disenfranchised, excluded and exploited and deserve a voice.

Lastly, I'd ask those who are so ready to disparage Corbyn and the views and people he represents how often they turn the same lens and critical analysis on those currently running this country. If Corbyn offers no threat then why waste your time on him (aside from the kick of a few cheap jibes & laughs)? Those that govern us deserve so much more popular and public scrutiny than they currently receive. If Corbyn influences this even marginally it would be a significant achievement.

Edit: I meant to start by saying I agree with the post quoted...

 

[GingerBeerMan]

They do seem to have become very quiet in the subject. Shame, i was enjoying it

Probably because most Corbyn supporters are ignoring you by now. We've had loads of threads like this, I've spent time setting outs lots of coherent arguments in favour of corbyn and haven't even had a sniff of a decent rebuttal. It's just a waste of time, coupled with the fact there seems to be personal attacks on anyone who seems to even slightly defend corbyn. Keep spending your time on NSC mocking people who have a different opinion to you, meanwhile I'll be reading about the course of this country... You know, the one being run by a goverent who say the Paris attacks were horrific while at the same time supporting ISIS backers on the international stage.

 

[Hampster Gull]

W

Probably because most Corbyn supporters are ignoring you by now. We've had loads of threads like this, I've spent time setting outs lots of coherent arguments in favour of corbyn and haven't even had a sniff of a decent rebuttal. It's just a waste of time, coupled with the fact there seems to be personal attacks on anyone who seems to even slightly defend corbyn. Keep spending your time on NSC mocking people who have a different opinion to you, meanwhile I'll be reading about the course of this country... You know, the one being run by a goverent who say the Paris attacks were horrific while at the same time supporting ISIS backers on the international stage.

Understand but i don't mock those with different views or make personal attacks unless in defence. I have not seen any coherent defence of Corbyn for a long time and i would be surprised anyone could make one but i dont read all the threads

 

[GT49er]

Oh bless! All those touting Corbyn as the saviour of Labour, and repeatedly slagging off the DEMOCRATICLY ELECTED government immediately after the election now don't like having their noses rubbed in it. Well hard blxxdy luck! You were so confident of victory at the polls, so far from magnanimous in defeat, and so repeatedly whinging that the Tories were doing exactly what was voted for by the electorate, and oh so cock sure when Jesus, oops sorry JC, became leader.

Well stuff you lot, enjoy your humble pie, and please carry on whinging as it just makes the election result evermore pleasing.

:raspberry:

'cking hell, what a 'nker! Where do we start to explain, in language of the simplicity of 'Janet and John'? Let's make it simple. It wasn't Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party that was defeated at the general election. It was the Labour party (if you can call it that; it has been described on here, very accurately, as 'Tory-Lite') of Ed Milliband that lost.
No idea where Middleband has 'cked off to, but the PLP he left behind is still heavily Blairite (ie Tory-Lite). Whether or not Corbyn succeeds in reforming the PLP, and whether or not the electorate likes the revised version is something that we'll find out in good time - but get this straight (if you can manage it). Jeremy Corbyn was not the defeated Labour leader at the last general election.
Still, 'Bless', as you say - there are some who still haven't realised this - http://www.funkytv.com/video/view/1469?nologin=true - is satire, aren't there...........

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Ah, so deselecting Labour MP's voted into power by their Constituents is the New Politics is it?

Candidates aren't selected by their constituents, they are selected by the local party members. The party members who elected Corbyn. Remember Corbyn won across the board. Party members as well as Union affiliates and £3ers. It would be very odd if those self same members voted to select as their candidate someone who was deliberately undermining Corbyn.

 

[Hampster Gull]

'cking hell, what a 'nker! Where do we start to explain, in language of the simplicity of 'Janet and John'? Let's make it simple. It wasn't Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party that was defeated at the general election. It was the Labour party (if you can call it that; it has been described on here, very accurately, as 'Tory-Lite') of Ed Milliband that lost.
No idea where Middleband has 'cked off to, but the PLP he left behind is still heavily Blairite (ie Tory-Lite). Whether or not Corbyn succeeds in reforming the PLP, and whether or not the electorate likes the revised version is something that we'll find out in good time - but get this straight (if you can manage it). Jeremy Corbyn was not the defeated Labour leader at the last general election.
Still, 'Bless', as you say - there are some who still haven't realised this - http://www.funkytv.com/video/view/1469?nologin=true - is satire, aren't there...........

It wasn't Corbyns version of socialism, you're right, although he was elected as part of the Labour party in the last election so it was in part his image. I love the idea that is often touted here that the Labour Party isn't the Labour Party unless they have hard left policies. It usually ends with them saying Blairs Labour Party wasn't the Labour Party so you end up with the party last being in Government in the 1970s. And what a mess they left. And very inexperienced

 

[jakarta]

Candidates aren't selected by their constituents, they are selected by the local party members. The party members who elected Corbyn. Remember Corbyn won across the board. Party members as well as Union affiliates and £3ers.

So the £3ers and Union Bosses will decide the Candidates - best of luck with that then!

 

[The Merry Prankster]

So the £3ers and Union Bosses will decide the Candidates - best of luck with that then!

I'm not sure if the £3ers get a say but you left out the party members. Union bosses have no say. Union members who have chosen to affiliate get a vote.

 

[GT49er]

Fair comments.........

It wasn't Corbyns version of socialism, you're right, although he was elected as part of the Labour party in the last election so it was in part his image.

Local constituency voters generally don't know (or care) exactly where on the political spectrum their candidate stands. If you're Tory, a pig with a blue rosette will do, if you're Labour, a pig with a red one. Doubt if many (if any) of the Labour voters in Corbyn's constituency thought, "Oooh, I'm not sure if I should vote for him, he's not very Blairite".

I love the idea that is often touted here that the Labour Party isn't the Labour Party unless they have hard left policies. It usually ends with them saying Blairs Labour Party wasn't the Labour Party so you end up with the party last being in Government in the 1970s.

All political parties evolve (or sometimes regress!) and change. Margaret Thatcher's government was way different to Harold McMillan's, which was way different to the Lord Salisbury/Joseph Chamberlain government. Tony Blair's was a lot different to Attlee's

After that you went off the boil, with some party political clap-trap and point scoring......

And what a mess they left. And very inexperienced

 

[Hampster Gull]

I'm not sure if the £3ers get a say but you left out the party members. Union bosses have no say. Union members who have chosen to affiliate get a vote.

Union leaders advise their members how to vote. They often write to them directly with their advice. The relationship between the union and their representatives is often very strong and this shouldnt be under estimated

 

[GT49er]

Ah, so deselecting Labour MP's voted into power by their Constituents is the New Politics is it?

As it's not happening, no, it isn't.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

It seems obvious that many people countrywide are upset by the governments decisions, says a lot that with this in mind the Labour party are not at least 7 points in the lead.
Sums up how bad Corbyn is as a credible opponent, and the team he has installed are an embarrassment.

just a bunch of scruffy lefty day dreamers ,how do they fit in with the average person on the street , someone who doesn't want to sing the national anthem comes across as a wrong un if you ask me
regards
DR

 

[jakarta]

Union bosses have no say.

Silly Me, of course they won't...

 

[GT49er]

So the £3ers and Union Bosses will decide the Candidates - best of luck with that then!

So, come on then. Tell us all. Just how are conservative candidates more democratically selected? Giving equal value to all candidates - as in "either Eton or Harrow, or Oxford or Cambridge, will do" - is not necessarily democracy!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He is a very odd and random person

I prefer "odd and random" over self serving selfish ****.

 

[wellquickwoody]

'cking hell, what a 'nker! Where do we start to explain, in language of the simplicity of 'Janet and John'? Let's make it simple. It wasn't Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party that was defeated at the general election. It was the Labour party (if you can call it that; it has been described on here, very accurately, as 'Tory-Lite') of Ed Milliband that lost.
No idea where Middleband has 'cked off to, but the PLP he left behind is still heavily Blairite (ie Tory-Lite). Whether or not Corbyn succeeds in reforming the PLP, and whether or not the electorate likes the revised version is something that we'll find out in good time - but get this straight (if you can manage it). Jeremy Corbyn was not the defeated Labour leader at the last general election.
Still, 'Bless', as you say - there are some who still haven't realised this - http://www.funkytv.com/video/view/1469?nologin=true - is satire, aren't there...........

I love you guys, I really do!

 

[GT49er]

Union leaders advise their members how to vote. They often write to them directly with their advice. The relationship between the union and their representatives is often very strong and this shouldnt be under estimated

And the members then vote in a secret ballot, which the Union leaders have no idea who voted for who. How much notice do you think the members take?
Well, OK, fair enough, you probably think they're all brainwashed, but you'd be surprised, I'm sure, at how many Union members don't do as they're 'advised'.