Christians killed

[Paskman]

I think the irony behind it is that the perpetrators are seeking refuge in a christian county and a continent steeped in christain ideals.........

 

[MattBackHome]

Whether you are religious or not you should at least respect and have concern for the plight of followers because, for one reason, a high percentage of those who fought and died for our freedom in the last World War were of Christian faith.

Bollocks.

The only reason you should have concern for any persons plight is because a) they're a person and b) they are encountering plight.

It's that simple and has nothing to do with any shared characteristics between them and someone who did something noble in the past.

 

[BadFish]

I think you are looking to apologise for them here, and it is rather hypocritical of you to suggest that it fits nicely into some agendas, when your reply fits equally as well into yours! I fully agree that with these sort of desperate situations people will not be, shall we say, at their best, though I am not sure how exactly what you mean when you say it is not representative of normal society. Do you mean the situation or the social make-up of those on board? The plight of the refugees is often covered in the media here in Europe, and whilst it might not have directly featured on NSC (not sure if this true, by the way?) people are not immune to the tragedies. However what has happened here is very different, hence its significance - this is not drowning due to unseaworthy vessels necessarily, but murder on religious grounds by "your average muslims" as another post put it.

I was replying to the other poster who was talking about the rules etc of society and how fragile they are. I am not sure that society is that fragile or at least that this example cannot really be put up as evidence of said fragility. having said that I do agree with his idea in that it only takes a change of context to change our social rules, so perhaps they are not as strong as we think.

The other and quite separate point I was making was that of all the 500 people who have died so far this year (an estimated 3000 last) only these have been afforded there own thread. As you do not deny this does certainly fit into an agenda. I don't think it is hypocritical to point this out as i think that this kind of selective posting of stories that focus on what "Muslims' are up to whilst ignoring other news skews the facts and is in many ways dangerous and unhealthy in todays climate.

You will have to explain further how you think this means i am apologising for them as I disagree. What they did was a heinous act and i hope that they are made to pay for what they did.

 

[Hastings gull]

I was replying to the other poster who was talking about the rules etc of society and how fragile they are. I am not sure that society is that fragile or at least that this example cannot really be put up as evidence of said fragility. having said that I do agree with his idea in that it only takes a change of context to change our social rules, so perhaps they are not as strong as we think.

The other and quite separate point I was making was that of all the 500 people who have died so far this year (an estimated 3000 last) only these have been afforded there own thread. As you do not deny this does certainly fit into an agenda. I don't think it is hypocritical to point this out as i think that this kind of selective posting of stories that focus on what "Muslims' are up to whilst ignoring other news skews the facts and is in many ways dangerous and unhealthy in todays climate.

You will have to explain further how you think this means i am apologising for them as I disagree. What they did was a heinous act and i hope that they are made to pay for what they did.

Thank you. I appreciate that your response was to another post, and sadly we would have to agree that society's norms can be quite fragile, given a set of circumstances. You only have to witness how some motorists can react, when all is needed is a bit of tolerance and teamwork when two lanes go into one! I am not in any way thinking, by the way, that you would agree with this act, as it is quite clear with your oft-stated views hitherto that you, like I , as grandparents, want the best for the children's futures, and racial or religious strife must at all costs be avoided.
Yes, the post may be selective, as probably all posts are, but that does not deny its validity. I feel that your assertion that this can happen when people are in desperate circumstances is not in this case reason enough. Assuming that the reporting is accurate, there would have been a deliberate attempt to selectively murder christians, rather than hitting out willy-nilly, which would characterise rather more an extremely stressful situation. This is what makes this situation stand out, and it is hardly unique in the modern world. This is news, as is the case with many other items on the news and it does not skew the situation. All media channels over the last few days have highlighted the plight of the estimated 10,000 migrants who have arrived in Italy in wretched circumstances this week. Should the media avoid reporting the shooting of black people in the USA, as that skews other news about the USA, or the impending election news, as this skews foreign news? You might not like to read what muslims are capable of, but for those of us in Europe, (not meant to be a dig) who have to put multi-cultural life into practice, this is yet another worrying incident.

 

[BadFish]

Thank you. I appreciate that your response was to another post, and sadly we would have to agree that society's norms can be quite fragile, given a set of circumstances. You only have to witness how some motorists can react, when all is needed is a bit of tolerance and teamwork when two lanes go into one! I am not in any way thinking, by the way, that you would agree with this act, as it is quite clear with your oft-stated views hitherto that you, like I , as grandparents, want the best for the children's futures, and racial or religious strife must at all costs be avoided.
Yes, the post may be selective, as probably all posts are, but that does not deny its validity. I feel that your assertion that this can happen when people are in desperate circumstances is not in this case reason enough. Assuming that the reporting is accurate, there would have been a deliberate attempt to selectively murder christians, rather than hitting out willy-nilly, which would characterise rather more an extremely stressful situation. This is what makes this situation stand out, and it is hardly unique in the modern world. This is news, as is the case with many other items on the news and it does not skew the situation. All media channels over the last few days have highlighted the plight of the estimated 10,000 migrants who have arrived in Italy in wretched circumstances this week. Should the media avoid reporting the shooting of black people in the USA, as that skews other news about the USA, or the impending election news, as this skews foreign news? You might not like to read what muslims are capable of, but for those of us in Europe, (not meant to be a dig) who have to put multi-cultural life into practice, this is yet another worrying incident.

Thanks for the reply. I am not commenting about what the news reports as, as you say, this particular item is probably more newsworthy because of the circumstances of the incident. My point is that it is always these stories that are anti muslim that are posted on NSC by a section of our membership who like to portray muslims poorly at every and any given opportunity.

I was just watching a news item about an Aussie girl who stood up for a young Muslim family who were being abused on a train but some moron who took exception to the lady's headscard which was apparently worn for a Paedophile and demonstrated her links to ISIL. We have ended up in a sad sad situation with stuff and I think we need to be careful about the kind of spin we are putting on news items. We have already seen on this thread that these murderers have been described as 'average Muslims" I strongly disagree with this as murdering scum like this are not representative and are certainly not average.

As a final point i think it is inaccurate to infer that Australia is not multicultural. This country is very proud of its Multiculturalism and holds itself up as successful multicultural country. I am not sure of the accuracy of this as i would suggest that for it to be a success the indigenous population would have to be doing a lot better. I am also not sure of the stats of cultures over here but there certainly is many many different backgrounds to this country. As a matter of fact the population of Muslims in Australia is only a percent or two below that of the UK.

 

[jimbob5]

Bollocks.

The only reason you should have concern for any persons plight is because a) they're a person and b) they are encountering plight.

It's that simple and has nothing to do with any shared characteristics between them and someone who did something noble in the past.

You are missing the point. These ARE people. You are the one who is talking b...

 

[jimbob5]

while this thread isnt intended to be provocative?

reglions are a joke, all of them, as evidenced by the tragedy of people being thrown off a boat apparently because of their religion. it doesnt matter what their religion, as people that is a tragedy. the fact that its being reported make the opening post irrelevent too.

Your point just shows contempt, ignorance and smugness.

 

[MattBackHome]

You are missing the point. These ARE people. You are the one who is talking b...

Take one large boiled potato, a pound of sausagemeat, a ripe avocado and two eggs and blend together in a large bowl until you've got a large solid mush.

Replace your brain with the potato/sausage mush. It will probably work better.

 

[daveinprague]

The 'doubt if it will be reported by the left wing media' is a common excuse for these sort of posts. It is always reported, but for some reason some people NEVER seem to notice it.

 

[jimbob5]

I see what you are saying and we as people can revert to barbarians rather more quickly than we care to think. People who have lived together for years can turn on each other with alarming speed, given a set of circumstances. Whether this has got worse over the years, I really am not sure - perhaps it is just reported and discussed more with the advent of the Internet.
Regarding the religious aspect, if christians are thrown off a boat by muslims after an argument about religion, as is reported, then that surely is everything to do with religion. I am sure that most folk would agree that IS do not represent general muslim opinion and interpretation of the Koran, so it is likely that the muslims on that boat would be as you put it "your average muslim". This surely makes the action all the more frightening for Europeans, who have just inherited these average muslims.

Bang on. The point is, if they were not Christians, they would not have been killed.

 

[Hastings gull]

Thanks for the reply. I am not commenting about what the news reports as, as you say, this particular item is probably more newsworthy because of the circumstances of the incident. My point is that it is always these stories that are anti muslim that are posted on NSC by a section of our membership who like to portray muslims poorly at every and any given opportunity.

I was just watching a news item about an Aussie girl who stood up for a young Muslim family who were being abused on a train but some moron who took exception to the lady's headscard which was apparently worn for a Paedophile and demonstrated her links to ISIL. We have ended up in a sad sad situation with stuff and I think we need to be careful about the kind of spin we are putting on news items. We have already seen on this thread that these murderers have been described as 'average Muslims" I strongly disagree with this as murdering scum like this are not representative and are certainly not average.
As a final point i think it is inaccurate to infer that Australia is not multicultural. This country is very proud of its Multiculturalism and holds itself up as successful multicultural country. I am not sure of the accuracy of this as i would suggest that for it to be a success the indigenous population would have to be doing a lot better. I am also not sure of the stats of cultures over here but there certainly is many many different backgrounds to this country. As a matter of fact the population of Muslims in Australia is only a percent or two below that of the UK.

Yes, anti-muslin posts do appear, but then people like yourself are always free to respond, and this gives us the debate which NSC is all about. You can't want debate and then moan when you don't like the post. If you want balance, you are free to start a post saying eg how good multi-culturalism is. By the way, I did see here that there was a video about that incident, though did not watch it - there is no excuse for abuse in the street or wherever, but then one might equally argue that wearing a headscarf which demonstrates a link to ISIL is equally provocative and does nothing for community relations.
With respect I think you have the wrong end of the stick with the idea of "your average muslim". Of course their actions are not typical of "your average" Muslim family living here or in OZ, but that is not what was meant. If we accept that fanatics and IS are not at all typical, as you have quite rightly recognised, then it is highly likely that those on board were not fanatics, thus, to coin the usual phrase, "moderate" muslims. Yet, when an argument arises about religion, they can brutally select and murder christians, and it is this, I would imagine, that worries many folk, They are now in Europe, and do you think that they will fit into a modern and tolerant society?
I did not mean to say that OZ does not have immigrants -of course it does, but I was surprised to read that there are many muslims. You are rather vague as to their numbers, but are you in OZ dealing with the same situation whereby in some of the bigger cities, whole suburbs have been transformed by immigration?

 

[jimbob5]

Take one large boiled potato, a pound of sausagemeat, a ripe avocado and two eggs and blend together in a large bowl until you've got a large solid mush.

Replace your brain with the potato/sausage mush. It will probably work better.

Go back to looking at dubious pornography. This is an intelligent conversation.

 

[MattBackHome]

This is an intelligent conversation.

I'll leave you to it.

 

[jimbob5]

I'll leave you to it.

OK Regards to Rotherham.

 

[BadFish]

Yes, anti-muslin posts do appear, but then people like yourself are always free to respond, and this gives us the debate which NSC is all about. You can't want debate and then moan when you don't like the post. If you want balance, you are free to start a post saying eg how good multi-culturalism is. By the way,]

I am not complaining I am happy to continue discussing and debating such things. However one of my major points about this is the lack of balance when looking at posts of this nature. People can post what they like, of course they can, but they must expect to be challenged in their ideas when they are as provocative and inaccurate as the OP's.

I did see here that there was a video about that incident, though did not watch it - there is no excuse for abuse in the street or wherever, but then one might equally argue that wearing a headscarf which demonstrates a link to ISIL is equally provocative and does nothing for community relations.

I can't agree with the premise of this statement as wearing a headscarf does not demonstrate a link to ISIL. That was the blokes opinion but actually it was just an normal islamic headscarf (I think they look really nice myself, I have been trying to get my wife to wear one backwards for years BOOM BOOM)

With respect I think you have the wrong end of the stick with the idea of "your average muslim". Of course their actions are not typical of "your average" Muslim family living here or in OZ, but that is not what was meant. If we accept that fanatics and IS are not at all typical, as you have quite rightly recognised, then it is highly likely that those on board were not fanatics, thus, to coin the usual phrase, "moderate" muslims. Yet, when an argument arises about religion, they can brutally select and murder christians, and it is this, I would imagine, that worries many folk, They are now in Europe, and do you think that they will fit into a modern and tolerant society?

I would suggest that if you are chucking people off a boat to their death because of their religion then you are somewhat fanatical. These are not the actions of moderate or average people.

I did not mean to say that OZ does not have immigrants -of course it does, but I was surprised to read that there are many muslims. You are rather vague as to their numbers, but are you in OZ dealing with the same situation whereby in some of the bigger cities, whole suburbs have been transformed by immigration?

I think the short answer to this is yes, but it really is hard to know just how comparable this is.

I was getting my figures from this article, not sure of their accuaracy but I haven't seen anything that disputes them as yet so i am going with them for now.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...ou-are-probably-wrong-about-almost-everything

 

[daveinprague]

there is no excuse for abuse in the street or wherever, but then one might equally argue that wearing a headscarf which demonstrates a link to ISIL is equally provocative and does nothing for community relations.
?[/QUOTE

Please tell me youre not being serious here?

 

[BadFish]

Please tell me youre not being serious here?

I reread my post and am assuming that he read my post as saying that her headscarf DID demonstrate a link to ISIL rather than that is what the abuser claimed. To he honest it wasn't written very well.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Theres people on NSC that rub their hands with glee when they see (tragic) news like this. Its as if they cannot wait to get it onto NSC quick enough... mostly to say, it wont be covered by the libreral, left wing press..(their usual excuse for posting it).despite it pretty much being always covered. Having said that, these are the people I will be mostly laughing at on the 7th, so no big deal really.

How on earth do you link a crime that appears to be associated with some peoples religion to how people will vote in the up coming election ? Bizarre to say the least.

 

[daveinprague]

How on earth do you link a crime that appears to be associated with some peoples religion to how people will vote in the up coming election ? Bizarre to say the least.

Because in the main, the people who 'highlight' Islam in their posts, and that is the point, not sure how you didnt 'understand', almost daily here tend to be shouting they are voting UKIP as well... thats how.

 

[jimbob5]

Because in the main, the people who 'highlight' Islam in their posts, and that is the point, not sure how you didnt 'understand', almost daily here tend to be shouting they are voting UKIP as well... thats how.

UKIP are a good fun party but have too much of a high ratio of nut jobs and hardly a threat.