Christians killed

[BadFish]

They were thrown over board for being Christians I suspect. If they were not Christians they would not have been thrown over board, so you would not have to feel sorry for them.

If they were Buddists, Muslims, Sikhs or Atheists would you still feel sorry for them?

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

They were thrown over board for being Christians I suspect. If they were not Christians they would not have been thrown over board, so you would not have to feel sorry for them.

Yes, thank you for clarifying this but I wasn't in doubt as to the reasons they were treated as they were. I'm again unsure as to your point as I was only responding to your 'hang your heads' comment, which I'm still really not getting.

I'm curious as to one thing; you state early on that you believe the media will ignore this story and I wondered whether you would have started this thread if it had been christians as the perpetrators and not victims?

 

[jimbob5]

Yes, thank you for clarifying this but I wasn't in doubt as to the reasons they were treated as they were. I'm again unsure as to your point as I was only responding to your 'hang your heads' comment, which I'm still really not getting.

I'm curious as to one thing; you state early on that you believe the media will ignore this story and I wondered whether you would have started this thread if it had been christians as the perpetrators and not victims?

One should hang their head in shame for having no concern. Once again the Christians were the victims which is concerning in the context of what is going on in the world.

 

[jimbob5]

If they were Buddists, Muslims, Sikhs or Atheists would you still feel sorry for them?

There you go again. What do you think? For the record, obviously I would feel sorry for them but you were just trying to be provocative again. Pathetic!

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

One should hang their head in shame for having no concern. Once again the Christians were the victims which is concerning in the context of what is going on in the world.

Concern that others in a similar situation might be treated the same? I think most people would be concerned, regardless of whether they're Christian or not.

Concerned that Christianity specifically is under attack (which I think is the suggestion?), less so. From another perspective, individuals in other countries may see the collateral damage from military action (whether justified or not, not an argument I'm looking to have at all) and decide that Christianity is on the assault against their faith. It would be a wrong assumption, but easy to see how it could be made.

Regardless, think we'll have to agree to disagree on the hanging of heads. I hope this post made some sort of sense as it's late and, in all honesty, I'm barely conscious...hopefully I shall now be embraced by the glory of sleep.

 

[jimbob5]

Concern that others in a similar situation might be treated the same? I think most people would be concerned, regardless of whether they're Christian or not.

Concerned that Christianity specifically is under attack (which I think is the suggestion?), less so. From another perspective, individuals in other countries may see the collateral damage from military action (whether justified or not, not an argument I'm looking to have at all) and decide that Christianity is on the assault against their faith. It would be a wrong assumption, but easy to see how it could be made.

Regardless, think we'll have to agree to disagree on the hanging of heads. I hope this post made some sort of sense as it's late and, in all honesty, I'm barely conscious...hopefully I shall now be embraced by the glory of sleep.

Yeah, what you are saying is that because we went to war against Suddam Hussain who had been a threat to the region and claimed to have nuclear weapons, which most people in the UK, [not me!] thought was a good idea at the time, people who had sweet FA to do with it all over the world decided they were entitled to kill innocent Christians of their own nationality. If you agree with them, well that's your take. I don't want to talk to you.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Yeah, what you are saying is that because we went to war against Suddam Hussain who had been a threat to the region and claimed to have nuclear weapons, which most people in the UK, [not me!] thought was a good idea at the time, people who had sweet FA to do with it all over the world decided they were entitled to kill innocent Christians of their own nationality. If you agree with them, well that's your take. I don't want to talk to you.

Is that what I'm saying or does it just best suit your narrative within this thread to make out that those disagreeing with you, even politely, are either anti-Christian or are somehow apologists for those who pushed them off the boat?

I've already said I would feel for anyone killed in that (or any) manner solely for their faith, whether it be Christian, Islamic, Sikh, Buddhist, Pastafarian or any other denomination you care to mention.

As far as I'm concerned, no previous action justifies murder on religious grounds, but this is my view. The point I was trying to make is that others may not feel the same. Does it possibly explain their actions, perhaps, does it excuse them, not even slightly.

I get this is an emotive subject but please don't put context to my words that isn't there.

Edit; In case you're wondering, an unwell baby is the reason I'm still awake, all being well I'll be out of your hair soon enough...

 

[BadFish]

There you go again. What do you think? For the record, obviously I would feel sorry for them but you were just trying to be provocative again. Pathetic!

This was just not clear in your previous posts. personally i think that asking people to 'Hang their heads in shame" and focussing on the religion in this tragedy is far more provocative than me challenging it.

 

[BadFish]

Yeah, what you are saying is that because we went to war against Suddam Hussain who had been a threat to the region and claimed to have nuclear weapons, which most people in the UK, [not me!] thought was a good idea at the time, people who had sweet FA to do with it all over the world decided they were entitled to kill innocent Christians of their own nationality. If you agree with them, well that's your take. I don't want to talk to you.

Now that is provocative.

 

[BadFish]

Now that is provocative.

and so was that

 

[W.C.]

12 Christians who were migrants from Libya were thrown to their death by other migrant passengers according to the Italian police. This will probably be given an convenient wide berth by our press.

This is one of the first news stories I read about today in the (British) press. I'm guessing this was the point of your thread? Or were you just informing us all because you didn't think it had been covered?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Europe is ****ed

Europe has been ****ed for a long time but nobody in power wants to see that .

 

[beorhthelm]

There you go again. What do you think? For the record, obviously I would feel sorry for them but you were just trying to be provocative again. Pathetic!

while this thread isnt intended to be provocative?

reglions are a joke, all of them, as evidenced by the tragedy of people being thrown off a boat apparently because of their religion. it doesnt matter what their religion, as people that is a tragedy. the fact that its being reported make the opening post irrelevent too.

 

[herecomesaregular]

to me it's little to do with religion. it shows how fragile the 'rules' of civilised society are. this kind of murder is reported more, occurring more, therefore becoming incrementally more 'acceptable'. I wonder if the killers were really hard core IS types or more just your average Muslim? is this kind of murder of persons who you have no beef with personally other than finding out their faith simply becoming the norm? to me highlights we are always only a thin breadth way from anarchy and the rules of society are very fragile. sad times

 

[Hastings gull]

to me it's little to do with religion. it shows how fragile the 'rules' of civilised society are. this kind of murder is reported more, occurring more, therefore becoming incrementally more 'acceptable'. I wonder if the killers were really hard core IS types or more just your average Muslim? is this kind of murder of persons who you have no beef with personally other than finding out their faith simply becoming the norm? to me highlights we are always only a thin breadth way from anarchy and the rules of society are very fragile. sad times

I see what you are saying and we as people can revert to barbarians rather more quickly than we care to think. People who have lived together for years can turn on each other with alarming speed, given a set of circumstances. Whether this has got worse over the years, I really am not sure - perhaps it is just reported and discussed more with the advent of the Internet.
Regarding the religious aspect, if christians are thrown off a boat by muslims after an argument about religion, as is reported, then that surely is everything to do with religion. I am sure that most folk would agree that IS do not represent general muslim opinion and interpretation of the Koran, so it is likely that the muslims on that boat would be as you put it "your average muslim". This surely makes the action all the more frightening for Europeans, who have just inherited these average muslims.

 

[daveinprague]

Theres people on NSC that rub their hands with glee when they see (tragic) news like this. Its as if they cannot wait to get it onto NSC quick enough... mostly to say, it wont be covered by the libreral, left wing press..(their usual excuse for posting it).despite it pretty much being always covered. Having said that, these are the people I will be mostly laughing at on the 7th, so no big deal really.

 

[Hastings gull]

Theres people on NSC that rub their hands with glee when they see (tragic) news like this. Its as if they cannot wait to get it onto NSC quick enough... mostly to say, it wont be covered by the libreral, left wing press..(their usual excuse for posting it).despite it pretty much being always covered. Having said that, these are the people I will be mostly laughing at on the 7th, so no big deal really.

Or you might be made to look a little silly on the 7th . .

 

[BadFish]

to me it's little to do with religion. it shows how fragile the 'rules' of civilised society are. this kind of murder is reported more, occurring more, therefore becoming incrementally more 'acceptable'. I wonder if the killers were really hard core IS types or more just your average Muslim? is this kind of murder of persons who you have no beef with personally other than finding out their faith simply becoming the norm? to me highlights we are always only a thin breadth way from anarchy and the rules of society are very fragile. sad times

I think you make a good point here. These boats are hardly representative of normal society though. To me it is hardly surprising that the rules of civilisation break down in this kind of situations. With so many over crowded, squalid, rickety boats full of desperate people who are fleeing for their lives it was surely only a matter of time before something horrendous like this happened.

In the article it says that 500 people have died this year making this journey. It is interesting that these 12 Christians have been given their own thread on NSC. Certainly fits nicely into some agendas.

 

[Hastings gull]

I think you make a good point here. These boats are hardly representative of normal society though. To me it is hardly surprising that the rules of civilisation break down in this kind of situations. With so many over crowded, squalid, rickety boats full of desperate people who are fleeing for their lives it was surely only a matter of time before something horrendous like this happened.

In the article it says that 500 people have died this year making this journey. It is interesting that these 12 Christians have been given their own thread on NSC. Certainly fits nicely into some agendas.

I think you are looking to apologise for them here, and it is rather hypocritical of you to suggest that it fits nicely into some agendas, when your reply fits equally as well into yours! I fully agree that with these sort of desperate situations people will not be, shall we say, at their best, though I am not sure how exactly what you mean when you say it is not representative of normal society. Do you mean the situation or the social make-up of those on board? The plight of the refugees is often covered in the media here in Europe, and whilst it might not have directly featured on NSC (not sure if this true, by the way?) people are not immune to the tragedies. However what has happened here is very different, hence its significance - this is not drowning due to unseaworthy vessels necessarily, but murder on religious grounds by "your average muslims" as another post put it.

 

[daveinprague]

Or you might be made to look a little silly on the 7th . .

Trust me. I wont.