China After This Crisis

[Triggaaar]

Hhmm, think we've been here before with Israel...

I assume that's a general 'we', rather than you and me?

You should be able to be against Israel's decisions without being antisemitic, but it is obviously more delicate due to the history of oppression that Jewish people have faced.

 

[Triggaaar]

Swine flu started in Mexico but I don’t remember anyone saying they’d never eat tortillas or chilli con carne ever again.

Although I agree with your principle, Mexico didn't continuously lie about the virus, leading to the deaths of many thousands of people around the world, and Swine flu didn't crash the world economy and lead to us all being locked up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Although I agree with your principle, Mexico didn't continuously lie about the virus, leading to the deaths of many thousands of people around the world, and Swine flu didn't crash the world economy and lead to us all being locked up.

It also mainly affected the under 30s.

 

[darkwolf666]

I assume that's a general 'we', rather than you and me?

You should be able to be against Israel's decisions without being antisemitic, but it is obviously more delicate due to the history of oppression that Jewish people have faced.

That was indeed the Royal we! We've not had any conversations about the Israel situation, but was an indication, as you were saying that criticism of the Chinese government doesn't make you anti-Chinese, in the same way as criticism of the Israeli state doesn't make you anti-Semitic...

 

[Triggaaar]

MPs find China "misled the world from outset"

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...covid-19-mps-warn/ar-BB12dIlw?ocid=spartanntp

I trust most of us knew that already, but it's reassuring to see that MPs are onto it as well.

 

[melias shoes]

I'm not ranting mate, just intrigued to see what others opinions are, it's clear we disagree though about China's handling of the crisis. They were warned, many times previously, that a pandemic of a virus could happen at any stage, but their desire to eat weird things overcame their common sense and this is where we are.

No, I don't think it was at local level, I seem to remember their Government making out like it was all controlled and everything was going to be ok, unless local to the source.

I'm not the sort to start delving into tiny details on Chinese components etc but I will avoid food, products blatantly made in China etc as much as I can. It'll be impossible to completely avoid it. I'm sure I change back once this all blows over, but currently, that's my feeling.

To be honest mate I'm bloody fuming. I've lost my livelihood because of this shit storm. My wife is at risk because she is one of the 1.5 million vulnerable. Shopping is an absolute nightmare because we have to rely on deliveries. Try getting that done. This doesn't mean I'm xenophobic it means I'm bloody angry!

 

[Machiavelli]

To be honest mate I'm bloody fuming. I've lost my livelihood because of this shit storm. My wife is at risk because she is one of the 1.5 million vulnerable. Shopping is an absolute nightmare because we have to rely on deliveries. Try getting that done. This doesn't mean I'm xenophobic it means I'm bloody angry!

Unfortunately for you, you've shown yourself to be both angry and xenophobic on here for far too long.
That said, I'm sorry to hear of your new circumstances, and hope that the policy framework that emerges doesn't make your bad situation even worse.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

To be honest mate I'm bloody fuming. I've lost my livelihood because of this shit storm. My wife is at risk because she is one of the 1.5 million vulnerable. Shopping is an absolute nightmare because we have to rely on deliveries. Try getting that done. This doesn't mean I'm xenophobic it means I'm bloody angry!

And I feel your anger mate, I'm very worried about mine also as I work in Aviation, it's currently at a standstill.

For me, this is all because a country, in this case China, didn't follow advice by scientist and seem to think lying and trying to cover this shitstorm up would make it ok. Doesn't make me Xenophobic or racist as some divs have suggested on here. I hope you get through this all in a positive light when it ends.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

In response to other points on this thread though, having lived in Taiwan for over three years and studied a fair bit of recent Chinese history to understand the context of how the place I was living in came to be that way, there are a few things people need to understand.

Firstly, overthrow the government? Forget it. China, for geo-political reasons, needs to have a strong, dictatorial government if it is to remain as one entity. it is huge, vaster than any of us can imagine and also used to central control. From the Dynasties to the KMT to the Communists there has always been hierarchical control from a power base. The alternative is a federal system not unlike the states but where either regions or, perhaps, people (such as the Uighurs) agitate for self rule or independence. That is no more stable than today. In fact, as we briefly saw when Yugoslavia broke up, the potential for corruption, war, poverty and, yes, disease is potentially far greater.

Secondly, I have no reason at all to hate Chinese people but the Chinese government needs to be accountable. Sanctions / boycotts / whatever will hurt the population but they may also lead to the government losing face and cracking down on poor practice, whether in research labs or wet markets. At the moment, despite the central control mentioned above, it is too easy for local party officials to turn a blind eye to things. This must be tightened up. Such action may affect people in places like Nanjing or Shenzhen but people in these cities are currently going about their business while the West eats a big shit sandwich. If nothing else deliberate future bio attacks must be discouraged as a country raised on the writings of Sun Tzu will undoubtedly be looking at us now and noting every single weakness.

I've got Taiwanese and Chinese friends, we're on first name terms at our local Chinese restaurant and a I bloody love that area of the world and studying Chinese culture. Doing nothing would seem the obvious non-Xenophobic reaction. But I fail to see how doing nothing is an option. A slap on the wrist simply means lessons have not been learned.

Great post, interesting points too and I agree with you sentiment re the Government etc.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

That was indeed the Royal we! We've not had any conversations about the Israel situation, but was an indication, as you were saying that criticism of the Chinese government doesn't make you anti-Chinese, in the same way as criticism of the Israeli state doesn't make you anti-Semitic...

Here here.

 

[middletoenail]

And I feel your anger mate, I'm very worried about mine also as I work in Aviation, it's currently at a standstill.

For me, this is all because a country, in this case China, didn't follow advice by scientist and seem to think lying and trying to cover this shitstorm up would make it ok. Doesn't make me Xenophobic or racist as some divs have suggested on here. I hope you get through this all in a positive light when it ends.

If you work in aviation, you would realise how important the Chinese are to your industry. If you don't then I would say (with a little temerity) that you're the div.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I’m never having chow mien again. And this week I’ll be searching my house for anything made in China and throwing it out.

If people are prepared to pay more for their goods might be easier, but sadly we live in a consumer , must be cheap society.

Company I work for is a US company that mainly manufacturers in China. For government contracts we have to use Taiwan assembly which carries about a 7% cost increase

Hope your steel beams were locally sourced


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[melias shoes]

Unfortunately for you, you've shown yourself to be both angry and xenophobic on here for far too long.
That said, I'm sorry to hear of your new circumstances, and hope that the policy framework that emerges doesn't make your bad situation even worse.

Is that right what other things am I angry about? If your referring to brexit I've nothing to be angry about.
As for my situation I'm afraid that what emerges is going to be atrocious for most people. I hope not but I honestly cant see any different. I don't know what you do for a living maybe you can work from home, I don't know but as of now I have zero money coming in. Nothing. In my post I didn't mention anything xenophobic, didn't mention any country whatsoever. I'm just angry my family has had its comfortable life interrupted. You draw your own conclusions but you don't know me.
Having said that I'm far more concerned for my wife and now Boris is in intensive care.

 

[Chicken Run]

So Wuhan is out of lockdown and residents joyfully headed out onto the streets, 100’s waiting for the first trains and planes out of the city....

 

[herecomesaregular]

So Wuhan is out of lockdown and residents joyfully headed out onto the streets, 100’s waiting for the first trains and planes out of the city....

Yes, i don't get this at all. The plan after deaths fall to zero is to just let everybody out again? Doesn't seem much of a plan.

 

[Bakero]

Yes, i don't get this at all. The plan after deaths fall to zero is to just let everybody out again? Doesn't seem much of a plan.

No, that's not the plan. Yes, people can leave the city but certain measures are still in place.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...uhans-coronavirus-lockdown-ends-after-76-days

 

[Bakero]

No, that's not the plan. Yes, people can leave the city but certain measures are still in place.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...uhans-coronavirus-lockdown-ends-after-76-days

This from a Brit living in Wuhan:

Life for residents of Wuhan is still more restricted than UK’s so-called lockdown. Each district is controlled by its own local authority so it’s not entirely uniform but the basics are the same.

To leave the community residence you need a green health code via an app on your phone. This is tied to your Chinese ID card and logs who you are and where you are. Your temperature is also taken.

To use the limited public transport you also need to log in and out using the app. Foreigners don’t have an ID card so they can’t use it.

Anyone returning to work also needs a special certificate verifying that the business has been given permission to restart. Otherwise you’re expected to return to your home within two hours.

Restaurants, cafes, stores, anywhere that people might gather are still closed. I can get to the supermarket five minutes walk from my apartment block, that’s all.

One hour a day exercise? No way.

So nobody should be mistaken that life in Wuhan is back to normal. And people in the UK need to think about what lockdown really means.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

If you work in aviation, you would realise how important the Chinese are to your industry. If you don't then I would say (with a little temerity) that you're the div.

Depends on which sector of aviation you work in, from a global point of view yes, but again, they may be a large competitor to your customer base depending on your regions of business within aviation. We are hardly going to stop them flying everywhere are we. Your little dig making out like I don't know what I'm talking about is a little strange.

I just want their to be strict sanctions in place on their management of wet markets and for proper food regulation to come into force and for the complete ban on their wild life trade, it's not only putting more and more species on the extinct list, it's also causing deaths in humans and financial ruin worldwide!

 

[Deleted member 22389]

A massive apology from the top would have been a good start, but quite honestly I don't think they give a ****. They have ruined the world. Think before you make any more purchases in the future, look for alternatives if you can. It might cost you a bit more, but it will be far better quality.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

A massive apology from the top would have been a good start, but quite honestly I don't think they give a ****. They have ruined the world. Think before you make any more purchases in the future, look for alternatives if you can. It might cost you a bit more, but it will be far better quality.

I think we'll get that apology, in some form or another, when the time is deemed right. China patently didn't set out to do this deliberately, and even allowing for their natural inclination towards state-sanctioned secrecy and propaganda, they seem to have taken all necessary steps to contain the virus as best they can, so far as any of us is able to judge. China is not your enemy. Well not mine anyway