Ched Evans

[Thunder Bolt]

What's 23 people got to do with anything. A lot more didn't want him signing for their club.

It wasn't to do with football.

 

[nwgull]

There have been at least 23 arrests made on suspicion of naming the victim by different people, 10 of whom ended up in court. Even last she was illegally named on Twitter, so it isn't just his defence team.

Most importantly, the Criminal Cases Review Commission believes that the new evidence that has been made available since the trial is significant enough that there is a real possibility that it could lead to the conviction being quashed.

It'll be interesting to see what that evidence is.

 

[Triggaaar]

It's not really about it being a stranger in a one on one event. To me gang banging a drunk stranger opens up a new can of worms though.

And to me, two people having consensual sex with one other person isn't a gang bang.

 

[Triggaaar]

His original appeal was turned down by judges.

Not because they think he's guilty, it's a simple point of law that they could not have an appeal unless their was a legal mistake in the conviction. No expert has convicted him of anything.

Add to the fact nobody apart from his defence team are crying out carriage of music justice

It's not the place of the prosecutor to complain there's been a miscarriage of justice when they win, who else would you expect to be complaining?

 

[symyjym]

And to me, two people having consensual sex with one other person isn't a gang bang.

Ok, it's one slice short of a loaf, but they also say that two's company three is a crowd

 

[nwgull]

Ok, it's one slice short of a loaf, but they also say that two's company three is a crowd

It's a threesome, not a gangbang. I've done loads of research on this over the internet.

 

[symyjym]

It's a threesome, not a gangbang. I've done loads of research on this over the internet.

 

[Billy the Fish]

CCTV footage, which was recovered, showed her outside the bar, inside and outside a kebab shop, and eventually her arrival at the hotel where the offence with which the court is concerned took place. The CCTV footage showed that while she was inside the kebab shop she was unsteady on her feet, at one point she fell over and landed on the floor. On the other hand, outside the kebab shop she could be seen eating pizza from a large box, although she was also seen to stumble, squat, lose her balance, and walk unsteadily. Indeed, she left her handbag in the shop. Based on this evidence, the prosecution case was that she was very drunk.

The applicant and McDonald had spent the evening with friends visiting various licensed premises. At some time shortly before 4am McDonald became separated from the group of friends. The complainant seems to have wandered into his path. They had a conversation and got into a taxi. The taxi driver thought that her upper clothing was somewhat dishevelled. The taxi driver took them to the hotel, where the applicant had booked and paid for a room in McDonald's name. During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect.

While en route to the room the porter heard her say to McDonald "You're not going to leave me, are you?" They entered a bedroom in which various sexual acts took place and eventually they had sexual intercourse.

In the meantime, no doubt in answer to the message that he had received from McDonald, the applicant arrived at the same hotel with two other male friends. He persuaded the night porter to give him a key card to the room occupied by McDonald and the complainant. He said that he had booked the room for a friend who no longer needed it. The applicant entered the room. Sexual intercourse between McDonald and the complainant ceased. The applicant performed oral sex on the complainant and then had vaginal sex with her. While it was taking place the porter went to check what was happening. He waited outside the room for a while and concluded from the noises that he could hear within the room that a couple were having sexual intercourse. No other concerns were raised in his mind.

The applicant's two companions remained outside the hotel. They looked through the bedroom window and filmed what was taking place with a mobile telephone until the curtains to the bedroom were closed.

After about half an hour McDonald left the hotel via the reception. He had a brief word with the night porter, telling him that he should look out for the girl in room 14 (the room in question) because she was sick. The applicant did not leave by the front door; he went out by an emergency exit. McDonald and the applicant met up outside and they returned to the applicant's home.

The complainant said that her next memory was waking up in the hotel room at about 11.30am. She realised that she was alone. She was naked and had urinated in the bed. She had a headache and was confused. She reported the matter to the police.

I can't see how anyone could read these parts of the transcript and not come to the conclusion that Evans and his mates were up to something not quite right.

Sounds like this is fairly common practice among footballers going on previous cases. Whether they deserve a rape conviction is a grey area, but none of it is particularly savory to say the least.

 

[drew]

I can't see how anyone could read these parts of the transcript and not come to the conclusion that Evans and his mates were up to something not quite right.

Sounds like this is fairly common practice among footballers going on previous cases. Whether they deserve a rape conviction is a grey area, but none of it is particularly savory to say the least.

Maybe because they are not the full facts. For example, it makes it sound that she woke up at 11:30 and rang the police. According to information, her evidence was that her mother picked her up, she went to work and it was only when she finished her shift, she went back to the hotel and asked to see the cctv and then rang the Police.

Unfortunately, a full transcript of the trial has never been released.

 

[Steve.S]

Not because they think he's guilty, it's a simple point of law that they could not have an appeal unless their was a legal mistake in the conviction. No expert has convicted him of anything.

It's not the place of the prosecutor to complain there's been a miscarriage of justice when they win, who else would you expect to be complaining?

That can include any new evidence. As you ask who else should be complaining, why not start with his fellow pros, they are not falling over themselves to shout his innocence. A lot of you seem to be going on about points of law and technicalities. The fact is that the general public don't need to convict someone beyond reasonable doubt. Whatever the outcome they have decided his guilt based on his attitude towards a woman that night. He may well get his conviction quashed, but I don't think football or the public will be welcoming him back with open arms. I seem to remember John Leslie a few years ago, he was found not guilty, yet the damage was already done.

 

[dazzer6666]

Another 200 pages of argument ahead........without any of us having anything like all the facts and other influencing factors. Unless you're in possession of all the evidence, have seen the individuals under cross examination etc etc it's impossible know exactly what went on and the most likely explanation.

 

[nwgull]

That can include any new evidence. As you ask who else should be complaining, why not start with his fellow pros, they are not falling over themselves to shout his innocence. A lot of you seem to be going on about points of law and technicalities. The fact is that the general public don't need to convict someone beyond reasonable doubt. Whatever the outcome they have decided his guilt based on his attitude towards a woman that night. He may well get his conviction quashed, but I don't think football or the public will be welcoming him back with open arms. I seem to remember John Leslie a few years ago, he was found not guilty, yet the damage was already done.

Sheffield Utd and their fans would welcome him back if his conviction was quashed. Coleman has said he'd also consider him for Wales.

 

[drew]

Another 200 pages of argument ahead........without any of us having anything like all the facts and other influencing factors. Unless you're in possession of all the evidence, have seen the individuals under cross examination etc etc it's impossible know exactly what went on and the most likely explanation.

There will only ever be two people who definitely know what happened and possibly a third.

 

[dazzer6666]

There will only ever be two people who definitely know what happened and possibly a third.

Indeed....and several who think they do....

 

[drew]

That can include any new evidence. As you ask who else should be complaining, why not start with his fellow pros, they are not falling over themselves to shout his innocence. A lot of you seem to be going on about points of law and technicalities. The fact is that the general public don't need to convict someone beyond reasonable doubt. Whatever the outcome they have decided his guilt based on his attitude towards a woman that night. He may well get his conviction quashed, but I don't think football or the public will be welcoming him back with open arms. I seem to remember John Leslie a few years ago, he was found not guilty, yet the damage was already done.

Out of interest, would you stand up for a fellow colleague accused of rape if you weren't there to know for sure? I'm not sure I would. That said, there doesn't appear to have been any salacious stories come out about his general behaviour either before or after this incident.

Interesting that you raise the question of Leslie. According to Wiki, he was never charged with any offence against Johnson because she has never confirmed or denied that it was him she referred to (a disservice to any women before or since that has been the victim of a similar crime, similar to Esther Rantzen claiming to know things about Jimmy Saville but not doing anything about it for the sake of her career!). The problem for Leslie was that as a TV presenter, his persona was his product that TV makers paid for. With Evans, it will be his goals. If he is proved not to be guilty, then I would bet a host of clubs would seek to employ him.

 

[Triggaaar]

That can include any new evidence. As you ask who else should be complaining, why not start with his fellow pros, they are not falling over themselves to shout his innocence.

Currently, he's a convicted rapist. If a fellow pro, who wasn't at the trial, was complaining about the conviction, it would reflect badly on them, regardless of the truth. And it wouldn't help anyway. The fact that these fellow pros are not complaining is no indication of guilt at all.

A lot of you seem to be going on about points of law and technicalities. The fact is that the general public don't need to convict someone beyond reasonable doubt.

I'm explaining the points of law and technicalities because you said "It's easy to look in and give opinions like we are experts and that somehow all these professionals have got it wrong." I simply told you that the experts haven't got it right or wrong, the experts didn't make the decision. You've tried to argue that they did and I'm explaining why that's not the case.

Whatever the outcome they have decided his guilt based on his attitude towards a woman that night.

So you think the average person has decided he's guilty based on his attitude, not because he's been found guilty in a court of law and sent to prison?

He may well get his conviction quashed, but I don't think football or the public will be welcoming him back with open arms.

No maybe not, he's certainly no hero. But I'm hope the public accept there's a difference between being a rapist and not being a rapist.

I seem to remember John Leslie a few years ago, he was found not guilty, yet the damage was already done.

Was he found not guilty? I believe that Ulrika Jonsson said someone had raped her, but she wouldn't say who, and John Leslie's name was accidentally said by someone. He never went on trial for rape, and wasn't found not guilty. Evans is also different, as he has served the time in prison, and if he's served the time for a crime he didn't commit, that could well be the opposite of John Leslie.

 

[drew]

Was he found not guilty? I believe that Ulrika Jonsson said someone had raped her, but she wouldn't say who, and John Leslie's name was accidentally said by someone. He never went on trial for rape, and wasn't found not guilty. Evans is also different, as he has served the time in prison, and if he's served the time for a crime he didn't commit, that could well be the opposite of John Leslie.

He was charged in relation to another alleged offence against a different victim which did go to trial but the case was then dropped by the prosecution when new evidence came to light about the alleged victim.

 

[Triggaaar]

According to Wiki, he was never charged with any offence against Johnson because she has never confirmed or denied that it was him she referred to (a disservice to any women before or since that has been the victim of a similar crime

If what Ulrika said was true, then she's a rape victim, don't you think you could cut her some slack? She decided that she didn't want her life to be defined by it, she would live her life as she wanted and not have a rapist ruin it, and for her that meant not going to trial.

similar to Esther Rantzen claiming to know things about Jimmy Saville but not doing anything about it for the sake of her career!

I don't think it's that similar because Esther wasn't a victim.

The problem for Leslie was that as a TV presenter, his persona was his product that TV makers paid for. With Evans, it will be his goals. If he is proved not to be guilty, then I would bet a host of clubs would seek to employ him.

I agree, and if he's not guilty of rape then I would hope he gets a job as a footballer again.

 

[BensGrandad]

My hope is that the truth comes out and this Ched Evans saga can be put to bed finally. If found guilty again put him back in side if not let him resume his career at the best available level.

 

[Bold Seagull]

My hope is that the truth comes out and this Ched Evans saga can be put to bed finally. If found guilty again put him back in side if not let him resume his career at the best available level.

It's not a retrial so he cannot be re-sentenced.