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Ched Evans



Creaky

Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,862
Hookwood - Nr Horley
Acker79 said:
Good grief. Hey ladies, we're just gonna make no effort whatsoever to hold men accountable for their actions, we're not going to try to put pressure on men to simply be decent human beings, we are going to absolve men of any responsibility and just instruct you not to get drunk or go anywhere alone. That's life!
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I can't see any suggestion that men shouldn't be held accountable for their actions!

Are you really saying that what was posted was not good advice? ???

I advised my daughter not to get drunk and to be careful when out alone - in doing so was I justifying the actions of criminally minded men? - of course I wasn't, what I was trying to do was keep her safe.
 




Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,921
Brighton
drew said:
According to the undisputed facts section of his website...
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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ow-its-time-to-close-the-website-9966529.html

The website misrepresents the key text message on the night from Clayton McDonald, Evans’ co-accused who was acquitted. Instead of reporting faithfully, “I’ve got a bird”, it says, under “Key and undisputed facts” “words to the effect of ‘I am with a girl’”. It suggests the prosecuting barrister apologised to Evans’ parents for the verdict when the Crown Prosecution Service have been clear he did no such thing.​

Earlier in this thread, someone (I don't remember who) posted words to the effect that there is no way they can legally present them as undisputed facts if they are not, as if it meant the website had to be telling the truth, at least in that section. That is obviously flawed logic. There is no legal obligation for them to be entirely truthful or completely honest. And it appears they weren't. The article also mentions the website is under review from the Attorney General.
 


Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,921
Brighton
Creaky said:
I can't see any suggestion that men shouldn't be held accountable for their actions!

Are you really saying that what was posted was not good advice? ???

I advised my daughter not to get drunk and to be careful when out alone - in doing so was I justifying the actions of criminally minded men? - of course I wasn't, what I was trying to do was keep her safe.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did. When the post was directed solely at ladies being instructed to amend their behaviour, instructing them to lead a less than full life because men will do what men do, no point trying to change them.
 


drew

drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,614
Burgess Hill
Acker79 said:
Good grief. Hey ladies, we're just gonna make no effort whatsoever to hold men accountable for their actions, we're not going to try to put pressure on men to simply be decent human beings, we are going to absolve men of any responsibility and just instruct you not to get drunk or go anywhere alone. That's life!
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That's not what he is saying though is it! It may have been put better but there are numerous situations in life which shouldn't be there but are. There are holiday destinations where you are advised not to wander into certain areas of a town because of potential trouble, not because you may be a woman but because you are an outsider. Everyone should have the right to go where ever they please but that's not reality. You might think you have the right to walk alone into the most Millwall of Millwall pubs and shout something derogatory about the club but what is the likely outcome! Take the shootings yesterday. Whilst defending freedom of speech 12 people got killed because of cartoons they printed. They had the right to do so but because not everyone out there is level headed and law abiding they set themselves up as targets (especially as they had been fire bombed before) to the psychopaths that turned up on their doorstep yesterday.
 


Creaky

Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,862
Hookwood - Nr Horley
Acker79 said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ow-its-time-to-close-the-website-9966529.html
The website misrepresents the key text message on the night from Clayton McDonald, Evans’ co-accused who was acquitted. Instead of reporting faithfully, “I’ve got a bird”, it says, under “Key and undisputed facts” “words to the effect of ‘I am with a girl’”. It suggests the prosecuting barrister apologised to Evans’ parents for the verdict when the Crown Prosecution Service have been clear he did no such thing.​

Earlier in this thread, someone (I don't remember who) posted words to the effect that there is no way they can legally present them as undisputed facts if they are not, as if it meant the website had to be telling the truth, at least in that section. That is obviously flawed logic. There is no legal obligation for them to be entirely truthful or completely honest. And it appears they weren't. The article also mentions the website is under review from the Attorney General.
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The exact wording of the text was not disclosed at the trial nor in the evidence reviewed by the Lord Chief Justice when considering whether or not to allow an appeal.

This is from that review,

During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect.
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Either wording has equal standing because both are qualified by the phrase, "or words to that effect"

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans
 






drew

drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,614
Burgess Hill
Acker79 said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ow-its-time-to-close-the-website-9966529.html

The website misrepresents the key text message on the night from Clayton McDonald, Evans’ co-accused who was acquitted. Instead of reporting faithfully, “I’ve got a bird”, it says, under “Key and undisputed facts” “words to the effect of ‘I am with a girl’”. It suggests the prosecuting barrister apologised to Evans’ parents for the verdict when the Crown Prosecution Service have been clear he did no such thing.​

Earlier in this thread, someone (I don't remember who) posted words to the effect that there is no way they can legally present them as undisputed facts if they are not, as if it meant the website had to be telling the truth, at least in that section. That is obviously flawed logic. There is no legal obligation for them to be entirely truthful or completely honest. And it appears they weren't. The article also mentions the website is under review from the Attorney General.
Click to expand...

An extract from the transcript of the Judgement of the Court of Appeal as per the link https://www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2012ewcacrim2559.pdf

'During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect.'

In relation to your post, the crucial part is 'or words to that effect'. The actual wording of the text is not known but the implied message is. 'I've got a bird' or I'm with a girl'. Are seriously suggesting they are miles apart?

With regard to the website, surely if they stated things that weren't truthful from the court case they would be in contempt of court? I believe it is currently under investigation for possible contempt but my understanding is that this relates to the video from the hotel foyer where the father of the girl believes th (at it allows people to identify her. If there were lies on the site then surely the father of the girl would have complained about that sooner or at least reported it to the courts for misrepresentation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...estigate-website-showing-video-of-victim.html


A lot of debate and issues might be addressed if the transcript of the original trial was available on-line (obviously redacted where necessary). Why in the 21st century when so much is on-line do we not have access to the information which was available to anyone who wanted to attend court!
 






















The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,578
Shoreham Beach
drew said:
An extract from the transcript of the Judgement of the Court of Appeal as per the link https://www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2012ewcacrim2559.pdf

'During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect.'

In relation to your post, the crucial part is 'or words to that effect'. The actual wording of the text is not known but the implied message is. 'I've got a bird' or I'm with a girl'. Are seriously suggesting they are miles apart?
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Yes. Miles. One objectifies her, one doesn't. Tells you about his mindset.
 


drew

drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,614
Burgess Hill
The Merry Prankster said:
Yes. Miles. One objectifies her, one doesn't. Tells you about his mindset.
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I know what point you're making but I still don't think it is miles apart. As you are making an issue of it, who said the text included the word bird and if it did, who sent the text? If you received a text referring to a bird does that say more about your mindset or that of the person who sent the text!
 




The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,578
Shoreham Beach
drew said:
I know what point you're making but I still don't think it is miles apart. As you are making an issue of it, who said the text included the word bird and if it did, who sent the text? If you received a text referring to a bird does that say more about your mindset or that of the person who sent the text!
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I don't know who said it. I'm just pointing out that they are very different. One is a text I might have sent (in my youth, if we'd had texts) and the other is one I'd never have sent. Obvs. it is a reflection on the sender.
 




hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,759
Chandlers Ford
[TWEET]553325333429358593[/TWEET]

Excellent from Henry Winter in the Telegraph. Sums up what many on here have been saying, but more succinctly.

Some of the comments below it are depressingly familiar, too...
 




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