Ched Evans

[Herr Tubthumper]

Think you'll find 2.5 times the limit isn't the amount you have drunk over an evening its the amount present in your blood at that moment in time so in your example it would be the same as you having 4.5 pints in one go directly into your blood without any metabolism of the alcohol. When you drink 4.5 pints you would do so over 3-4 hours i'd guess and your body would be processing and removing that all the time

Someone talking some sense at last.

 

[drew]

You honestly don't appreciate that there is a very fundamental difference between these two statements;

'I'd like to apologise for the effects that night in Rhyl, have had on many people'

'I'd like to apologise for the effects my behaviour that night in Rhyl, have had on many people'

.
Sorry, but the point I was making that it seems lots of people want different things. Originally everyone seemed to be crying out for him to show remorse for raping the girl without appreciating that was not in keeping with him maintaining his innocence. The goalposts get moved and by different people. As they say, you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all of the time.

I can see the difference between the two statements but it is almost certain he is being guided by legal advice. He may want to say more, he may want to say less but he is guided by his legal team as anyone would in those circumstances.

 

[spring hall convert]

.
Sorry, but the point I was making that it seems lots of people want different things. Originally everyone seemed to be crying out for him to show remorse for raping the girl without appreciating that was not in keeping with him maintaining his innocence. The goalposts get moved and by different people. As they say, you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all of the time.

I can see the difference between the two statements but it is almost certain he is being guided by legal advice. He may want to say more, he may want to say less but he is guided by his legal team as anyone would in those circumstances.

I would suggest this has come far too late to satisfy many of his critics of its sincerity. Also, that website needs to come down.

I really do think he'd be best served letting this go until the appeal is heard/ not heard. Do some community work in the meantime (so long as the conditions of his probation allow) come back saying his entire outlook on life has changed and that he's a new man.

I genuinely could have advised Evans better than whoever the idiots he's got in his corner are. His PR has been abysmal.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I am starting to wonder whether Evans determination to get the verdict overturned is doing more harm than good for him.

I think he's restricted by what he can say because of this, but he's served his time and been released. If he'd offered an unreserved apology and got on with his life, I think there is a greater possibility that he would be playing again by now. Clearly a lot would still disagree and object but the counter argument would have been stronger. His biggest mistake, in my view, was that ridiculous interview he did with this weepy girlfriend where he tried to portray himself as a victim. Of course he may win the appeal, but will that change the majority's perception of him now?

I don't know the answer to this, but I think whichever side you are on, Evans had handled his post release situation very badly.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Seems a bit of a vague clause that. I thought they would be much more stringent.

They might be. As a sponsor, I wanted as much flexibility to pull the sponsorship as I could get; the recipient conversely wants to give me as little as possible. The tighter the clause is drafted, the less wiggle room there is. For example, it's unlikely that there would be a specific clause saying "if you try to sign a convicted rapist, we can pull the sponsorship", since you'd have to try to list 300 specific things - and then you'd find that the particular thing that happened wasn't covered, thus preventing you from pulling it. The recipient would fight such a general clause of course, precisely because it's vague. It's just down to negotiation, and who has the greater power. I suspect that negotiating with Manure is rather more tricky than negotiating with Oldham, with BHAFC somewhere in between.

 

[drew]

I would suggest this has come far too late to satisfy many of his critics of its sincerity. Also, that website needs to come down.

I really do think he'd be best served letting this go until the appeal is heard/ not heard. Do some community work in the meantime (so long as the conditions of his probation allow) come back saying his entire outlook on life has changed and that he's a new man.

I genuinely could have advised Evans better than whoever the idiots he's got in his corner are. His PR has been abysmal.

Whatever you think, in his shoes would you really go against the legal advice from his team? You might think you know best but are you conversant in the appeals process or the way the CCRC approaches things? Would you be advising with regard to his legal case or merely trying to make him look better in the public eye?

I do agree that he should step back from finding a club until the CCRC have completed their review and, if it goes that far, the subsequent appeal. As for doing voluntary work, don't you think he will still be hounded whatever he does and where ever he goes. Apart from trying to find a club, it's not like he has been out clubbing and the like so he does seem to be keeping a low profile, all things considered.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Of course her memory of events has a bearing. If she genuinely can't remember then there isn't much testimony she can give however, if the jury felt that she didn't have memory loss then that would mean she knew whether she gave consent and wasn't saying!

I think the fact her original statement to police had no recollection would suggest no apparent motivation to implicate anyone, therefore it is difficult to doubt she is telling the truth that she has no memory of the previous evening. I'm not sure I can work out any reason she'd report the matter to the police but hide or knowingly withhold anything. Regardless of what Ched Evans website claims about how drunk she was, how she walked in her high heel shoes, the police took a statement from a very scared, young women who'd woken up in a wet bed completely uncomprehending of what had happened to her.

 

[Triggaaar]

Have to say that I am intrigued as to how you can say you believe her. Shot in the dark here but I assume you don't know the girl in question. If not, then based on the fact that she hasn't given interviews, remains anonymous, doesn't have a website putting her side of the story and you weren't in court to hear her testimony, what is it that makes believe her?

It's only an opinion based on a couple of things: if she had been lying, she could have easily embellished the lies with comments like 'I remember saying I want to sleep" or "I remember seeing someone I didn't know" or other comments in an attempt to make it seem like she was not in control. And also the fact that the jury almost certainly believed her - if they hadn't, I doubt Evans would have been convicted.

it was suggested she gave false testimony under oath relating to her drug use!

I don't remember that. Interesting if correct.

Think you'll find 2.5 times the limit isn't the amount you have drunk over an evening its the amount present in your blood at that moment in time so in your example it would be the same as you having 4.5 pints in one go directly into your blood without any metabolism of the alcohol. When you drink 4.5 pints you would do so over 3-4 hours i'd guess and your body would be processing and removing that all the time

Yes, fair point.

 

[BensGrandad]

I got slated for saying the petitions etc were mob rule.

 

[spring hall convert]

Whatever you think, in his shoes would you really go against the legal advice from his team? You might think you know best but are you conversant in the appeals process or the way the CCRC approaches things? Would you be advising with regard to his legal case or merely trying to make him look better in the public eye?

I do agree that he should step back from finding a club until the CCRC have completed their review and, if it goes that far, the subsequent appeal. As for doing voluntary work, don't you think he will still be hounded whatever he does and where ever he goes. Apart from trying to find a club, it's not like he has been out clubbing and the like so he does seem to be keeping a low profile, all things considered.

There are people on this thread, including me who have said from the start he could have released a statement similar to the one he released today. Clearly I'm no legal expert but today's statement would have gone through his lawyers. He should have been saying more of this back when he was making that pathetic half arsed, woe is me, apology to his girlfriend. Anyone with half a brain knew rape or no rape he had made mistakes, to try and act like he hadn't was arrogant and was never going to do him any favours.

Sadly I think you might have a point about him being hounded. I'd like to think that if he wanted to do some voluntary work he'd be left to it. At the very least it would give him a better position against his critics, if they were to stop him doing voluntary work. It's those kind of perceptions he and his team just haven't thought about.

 

[drew]

I think the fact her original statement to police had no recollection would suggest no apparent motivation to implicate anyone, therefore it is difficult to doubt she is telling the truth that she has no memory of the previous evening. I'm not sure I can work out any reason she'd report the matter to the police but hide or knowingly withhold anything. Regardless of what Ched Evans website claims about how drunk she was, how she walked in her high heel shoes, the police took a statement from a very scared, young women who'd woken up in a wet bed completely uncomprehending of what had happened to her.

Your painting a picture that suits your arguments. Where has it been stated she was very scared? She may have been but I'm not sure where that has been stated before! She was collected by her mother, went to work later that day. After her shift finished at 11pm she went back to the prem inn and wanted to see the CCTV which apparently she didn't but after being told the room was booked for two footballers she then went to the Police. She may well have been scared but nowhere have I seen that reported! So, when she went to the Police, she already knew that it involved two footballers!

Playing devil's advocate, for all any of us know, she might regularly get drunk after work and end up in bed with a stranger. Likewise, Evans might have previously cheated on his girlfriend and had a threesomes regularly but as no evidence to that effect has been presented by anyone then nobody can imply that as a fact.

 

[drew]

I am starting to wonder whether Evans determination to get the verdict overturned is doing more harm than good for him.

I think he's restricted by what he can say because of this, but he's served his time and been released. If he'd offered an unreserved apology and got on with his life, I think there is a greater possibility that he would be playing again by now. Clearly a lot would still disagree and object but the counter argument would have been stronger. His biggest mistake, in my view, was that ridiculous interview he did with this weepy girlfriend where he tried to portray himself as a victim. Of course he may win the appeal, but will that change the majority's perception of him now?

I don't know the answer to this, but I think whichever side you are on, Evans had handled his post release situation very badly.

So, you are accused of a rape that you know you didn't commit. You would accept that tag for the rest of your life, including the implications of having your name on the sex offenders register etc..

If he wins the appeal and that doesn't change the majority's perception of him, ie a rapist, then that is a sad indictment of our society!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Your painting a picture that suits your arguments. Where has it been stated she was very scared? She may have been but I'm not sure where that has been stated before! She was collected by her mother, went to work later that day. After her shift finished at 11pm she went back to the prem inn and wanted to see the CCTV which apparently she didn't but after being told the room was booked for two footballers she then went to the Police. She may well have been scared but nowhere have I seen that reported! So, when she went to the Police, she already knew that it involved two footballers!

Playing devil's advocate, for all any of us know, she might regularly get drunk after work and end up in bed with a stranger. Likewise, Evans might have previously cheated on his girlfriend and had a threesomes regularly but as no evidence to that effect has been presented by anyone then nobody can imply that as a fact.

Where have you read all that? She reported the matter to the police not long after waking up at 11.30am. She was examined by the doctors and a blood sample taken that same afternoon.

 

[Beach Seagull]

I swear this country won't be happy until Ched Evans is found hanging in his garage. Since he's come out of prison we've heard 'he's shown not contrition' so today he issues a statement, clearly whilst he is looking to appeal his conviction it is going to stop short of saying 'I'm sorry for what I did' as if the case did go to the court of appeal it could be seen as an admission of guilt, so he issues what I think was a very carefully worded statement. But no thats not enough for the 'pound of flesh' merchants is it.

Why can't people understand that there is no way he is going to say anything that could seen as an admission of guilt all the time he is protesting his innocence. Has Jeremy Bamber ever shown 'remorse' or 'contrition?' Did the Guildford 4 / The Birmingham 6 / The Bridgewater 3?

Then we get the 'voluntary work' and 'lower league football' posts, no doubt if he was to undertake any form of voluntary work there would be posts on here saying 'he's only doing it as he sees it as a route back into football' as for 'non league football' if he did that there would be a huge s**t storm around that the same way there has been with his attempt to make it back to league football. Although I think it would soon die down.

All the guy is trying to do is resume his career, the same way McCormack / Hughes / Rix / King were able to. Jesus McCormack and Hughes killed 3 people between them. I wonder who has suffered more the girl in the Evans case or the family in the McCormack case? Were was the public villification of Marlon King when he resumed his career at amongst others Sheffield United.

He's served his sentence (well the custodial part of it) and in a country that seemingly prides itself on rehabilitation he should be able to resume his career.

Any club who do sign have won't have to ride out the storm for that long. If Oldham had gone through with it, I would say after his first game back and his first away game the media / public would soon lose interest in the whole thing, you see it all the time here, a huge story one week, fish n chip wrappings the next. As for the fans, generally speaking most are a fickle and forgiving lot and if / when CE started to score on a regular basis they would soon be back.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If he wins the appeal and that doesn't change the majority's perception of him, ie a rapist, then that is a sad indictment of our society!

You doubt his current conviction, why would it be a sad indictment if people don't believe in a future appeal acquittal? They'd be in the same position you are in now - arguing against a court decision.

 

[drew]

I swear this country won't be happy until Ched Evans is found hanging in his garage. Since he's come out of prison we've heard 'he's shown not contrition' so today he issues a statement, clearly whilst he is looking to appeal his conviction it is going to stop short of saying 'I'm sorry for what I did' as if the case did go to the court of appeal it could be seen as an admission of guilt, so he issues what I think was a very carefully worded statement. But no thats not enough for the 'pound of flesh' merchants is it.

Why can't people understand that there is no way he is going to say anything that could seen as an admission of guilt all the time he is protesting his innocence. Has Jeremy Bamber ever shown 'remorse' or 'contrition?' Did the Guildford 4 / The Birmingham 6 / The Bridgewater 3?

Then we get the 'voluntary work' and 'lower league football' posts, no doubt if he was to undertake any form of voluntary work there would be posts on here saying 'he's only doing it as he sees it as a route back into football' as for 'non league football' if he did that there would be a huge s**t storm around that the same way there has been with his attempt to make it back to league football. Although I think it would soon die down.

All the guy is trying to do is resume his career, the same way McCormack / Hughes / Rix / King were able to. Jesus McCormack and Hughes killed 3 people between them. I wonder who has suffered more the girl in the Evans case or the family in the McCormack case? Were was the public villification of Marlon King when he resumed his career at amongst others Sheffield United.

He's served his sentence (well the custodial part of it) and in a country that seemingly prides itself on rehabilitation he should be able to resume his career.

Any club who do sign have won't have to ride out the storm for that long. If Oldham had gone through with it, I would say after his first game back and his first away game the media / public would soon lose interest in the whole thing, you see it all the time here, a huge story one week, fish n chip wrappings the next. As for the fans, generally speaking most are a fickle and forgiving lot and if / when CE started to score on a regular basis they would soon be back.

Unfortunately, you're probably right!

 

[drew]

You doubt his current conviction, why would it be a sad indictment if people don't believe in a future appeal acquittal? They'd be in the same position you are in now - arguing against a court decision.

Probably because a lot of people jumping on the petition bandwagon don't know anything about the actual case. However, I accept that there may be some who, despite a successful appeal still, having consider what evidence there is, that he is guilty and in that sense they would be in the same position as I am. However, I wonder how many of the 60k that signed the Oldham petition know much about the case, it was apparent from her comments that the instigator of the petition doesn't.

 

[The Wizard]

I swear this country won't be happy until Ched Evans is found hanging in his garage. Since he's come out of prison we've heard 'he's shown not contrition' so today he issues a statement, clearly whilst he is looking to appeal his conviction it is going to stop short of saying 'I'm sorry for what I did' as if the case did go to the court of appeal it could be seen as an admission of guilt, so he issues what I think was a very carefully worded statement. But no thats not enough for the 'pound of flesh' merchants is it.

Why can't people understand that there is no way he is going to say anything that could seen as an admission of guilt all the time he is protesting his innocence. Has Jeremy Bamber ever shown 'remorse' or 'contrition?' Did the Guildford 4 / The Birmingham 6 / The Bridgewater 3?

Then we get the 'voluntary work' and 'lower league football' posts, no doubt if he was to undertake any form of voluntary work there would be posts on here saying 'he's only doing it as he sees it as a route back into football' as for 'non league football' if he did that there would be a huge s**t storm around that the same way there has been with his attempt to make it back to league football. Although I think it would soon die down.

All the guy is trying to do is resume his career, the same way McCormack / Hughes / Rix / King were able to. Jesus McCormack and Hughes killed 3 people between them. I wonder who has suffered more the girl in the Evans case or the family in the McCormack case? Were was the public villification of Marlon King when he resumed his career at amongst others Sheffield United.

He's served his sentence (well the custodial part of it) and in a country that seemingly prides itself on rehabilitation he should be able to resume his career.

Any club who do sign have won't have to ride out the storm for that long. If Oldham had gone through with it, I would say after his first game back and his first away game the media / public would soon lose interest in the whole thing, you see it all the time here, a huge story one week, fish n chip wrappings the next. As for the fans, generally speaking most are a fickle and forgiving lot and if / when CE started to score on a regular basis they would soon be back.

Absolutely spot on. Great post.

 

[severnside gull]

I am sure the irony won't be lost on many that the same hate-mob tactics that Evans' supporters have used to discredit his victim have now been utilised by his opponents to prevent him resuming his career. That is not to sanction either but is a fairly telling indictment of the society wherein easy access to mass communication coupled with relative anonymity allows everyone to become a "player" whatever their motivations.

Something needs to change and whether they serve any other purpose, cases like this might at least take us closer to that point.

 

[Triggaaar]

You honestly don't appreciate that there is a very fundamental difference between these two statements;

'I'd like to apologise for the effects that night in Rhyl, have had on many people'

'I'd like to apologise for the effects my behaviour that night in Rhyl, have had on many people'

So the first doesn't include 'my behaviour', but if not for his behaviour, what is he apologising for?

I am starting to wonder whether Evans determination to get the verdict overturned is doing more harm than good for him.

Wow, that's amazing. So, hypothetically, if you were falsely convicted of rape, and you had the chance to clear your name, you'd say 'nah, I'll just apologise for the crime I didn't commit.' Just wow.

Of course he may win the appeal, but will that change the majority's perception of him now?

He hasn't even got an appeal, but if he gets one, and if he wins, then of course it will change people perception.

I'm not sure I can work out any reason she'd report the matter to the police but hide or knowingly withhold anything.

I don't think she did, but victims often do withhold evidence for a variety of reasons, like being scared, feeling guilt or shame etc.