[Albion] Change to away ticket sales process [Club update - post #140]

[studio150]

Based on that answer, you don't need the detective skills of Poirot to work out that the ticket office HAS to allocate the tickets furthest from the movable segregation in the first instance so that the away club can sell to home fans of we decide to take a reduced allocation because of poor initial sales.

Why do the club have to do this.

The club have stated that they have moved the on sale dates forward to get a better understanding of how many fans will be going to the away fixture, and if the lower allocation sells how quickly they will make a decision on taking a further allocation.

The club do not need to allocate the first block to those that purchased a ticket at that stage. Indeed the response from the club was that they would allocate the best seats to those that purchased first.

The issue from Watford game is how do they decide which is the better block.

 

[Bozza]

My wording was imprecise. By 'unsold tickets' I mean the difference between theoretical maximum allocation and the allocation decided upon by the club. When is the decision made and for Liverpool did it happen during the tiered buying process ? You may not know but then nor does anybody else it seems. This opaque process potentially affects northern based non STH and also STHs who would like to hold off buying to sit with others with less points (whilst minimizing the risk of missing out altogethger).

Similarly to the answer I just gave above, the club will make a judgement call based on the speed of sales and the next step up in possible allocations. It may be that there is further demand for, say, 200 sales to drift out over the period between the initial sales period and the game itself, but if the club need to take and pay for 1,200 tickets to satisfy that demand, then they won't do it.

If the next step up is 500 tickets, maybe they would. Each club we visit will have different tiers of allocation sizes - I have no idea what they all are.

 

[Is it PotG?]

If anything, it will worsen the 'sit where we want' brigade.

Before, after you had taken the time to narrow down the area of your ticket, you knew what you were after via simple research/experience. Now, some will roll up saying 'I don't fancy this at all....obscured view/letterbox, corner flag etc etc' and seek a better alternative.

 

[tonytowner]

Mr Barber will also say that they have considered all the suggestions put forward on this thread - some of which are very good. It would be fascinating to hear from him of any fan feedback that has resulted in him changing a decision he has previously implemented. We need to realise that he knows best

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes, we're all in the same boat here. If I'm not allocated those tickets then some other poor sod will be, where does it end?

The fault lies with Everton for selling those tickets in the first place.

Restricted view seats are cheaper, so not all in the same boat.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Much ado about nothing

Maybe to you. For some people it's these small details that contribute to the enjoyment of a day out. People have all sorts of reasons for choosing where they sit and for some it can make a big difference. Sometimes it can be the difference between even being able to physically sit down or even be able to view the game. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. Will most fans still go? Yes and that's the bottom line for the club. They have chosen to improve their admin and potentially save a bit of cash over customer service and that's disappointing.

 

[Official Old Man]

Surely the answer is to put Ryan Air in charge.
GA ticket is £30 with seat allocated for you.
Pick your seat (when available) £3
OK, so scrap the £3 bit but once the club have taken up the allocation (1800 at Liverpool) these can then go back online on a Thursday for purchasers to select their seats. Also, last season saw fans with high LPs wanting to stand with their mates who could only buy later. Now they can reserve seats together.
Meanwhile, have home tickets gone on sale for Man Utd in the SW / S corner that would normally be away fans? Does that mean Man Utd do the same thing?

 

[Johnnyboy]

Maybe to you. For some people it's these small details that contribute to the enjoyment of a day out. People have all sorts of reasons for choosing where they sit and for some it can make a big difference. Sometimes it can be the difference between even being able to physically sit down or even be able to view the game. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. Will most fans still go? Yes and that's the bottom line for the club. They have chosen to improve their admin and potentially save a bit of cash over customer service and that's disappointing.

Even having a choice of Front/Middle/Back when you buy your ticket could help solve most of these issues and as Thunder Bolt mentions most restricted view seats are identified at point of purchase.

 

[Quinney]

Surely the answer is to put Ryan Air in charge.
GA ticket is £30 with seat allocated for you.
Pick your seat (when available) £3
OK, so scrap the £3 bit but once the club have taken up the allocation (1800 at Liverpool) these can then go back online on a Thursday for purchasers to select their seats. Also, last season saw fans with high LPs wanting to stand with their mates who could only buy later. Now they can reserve seats together.
Meanwhile, have home tickets gone on sale for Man Utd in the SW / S corner that would normally be away fans? Does that mean Man Utd do the same thing?

It would be great if the system of going in a couple of days after securing a ticket, once they’ve gone off sale, to reserve a seat could be implemented. Knock on effect would be more people being able to sit with who they want and where they want which would also improve an already very good away atmosphere.


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[rippleman]

Good points.

But in the real world of away games, fellow Albion fans beligerently tell you to f*ck off when you try and take your rightful seat. Everyone on NSC always accepts this as an unwritten custom.

Overriding whatever scheme the Albion has.

This is so...although I have never been sworn at by a fellow Albion fan over an away seat. Maybe that's because I have never been at all bothered about my allocated seat. I squeeze in wherever I can. During the Amex era I only recall sitting in my allocated seat once; at MK Dons. Back row, great view.

Of course, special provision needs to be made for wheelchair users and those less abled who need to be seated near the front so they have an uninterrupted view. For the rest of us, does it really matter? Am I going to scream for a steward because someone is in my allocated seat? And then, assuming that the steward is at all interested, have them disturb an entire row of people to eject the fans who have sat in my seat? Then those ejected from my seat want the steward to move the person in their allocated seat.....and so it goes on.

At Stamford Bridge last season we were in the wrong seats. We told the steward that he would have to go and move the people sitting in our seats....and then the fans sitting in their seats etc..........and he just couldn't be arsed!

We all have a seat, even if it isn't the correct one and I certainly don't care where I sit (or rather stand!). It would just be so much easier if everybody (excepting wheelchair users and the less abled) took whatever was available.

 

[Is it PotG?]

This is so...although I have never been sworn at by a fellow Albion fan over an away seat. Maybe that's because I have never been at all bothered about my allocated seat. I squeeze in wherever I can. During the Amex era I only recall sitting in my allocated seat once; at MK Dons. Back row, great view.

Of course, special provision needs to be made for wheelchair users and those less abled who need to be seated near the front so they have an uninterrupted view. For the rest of us, does it really matter? Am I going to scream for a steward because someone is in my allocated seat? And then, assuming that the steward is at all interested, have them disturb an entire row of people to eject the fans who have sat in my seat? Then those ejected from my seat want the steward to move the person in their allocated seat.....and so it goes on.

At Stamford Bridge last season we were in the wrong seats. We told the steward that he would have to go and move the people sitting in our seats....and then the fans sitting in their seats etc..........and he just couldn't be arsed!

We all have a seat, even if it isn't the correct one and I certainly don't care where I sit (or rather stand!). It would just be so much easier if everybody (excepting wheelchair users and the less abled) took whatever was available.

Stadiums with issues such as Loftus Road sometimes diminish the feeling of laissez-faire.

 

[studio150]

We all have a seat, even if it isn't the correct one and I certainly don't care where I sit (or rather stand!). It would just be so much easier if everybody (excepting wheelchair users and the less abled) took whatever was available.

Look forward to this enlightened approach when someone is in your Amex seat

 

[Perkino]

Maybe I am being dumb. Surely if the home club were in charge of the ticket sales they could sell in blocks as and when they wish to and open areas up as required. This would allow them to sell remaining tickets to home fans and use a "choose your seat" type of approach to the sale of tickets.

I understand the financial implications but making it better for supporters will help to always fill out a 3,000 seat allocation

 

[rippleman]

On the main issue of taking smaller allocations in tranches until the club is able to judge demand, I can't argue with it. Makes perfect economic sense to me; I don't want to see the club splashing out for tickets that it can't sell.

 

[rippleman]

Look forward to this enlightened approach when someone is in your Amex seat

Huh? Aren't we talking about away games here? What's this thread got to do with home games?

 

[Nixonator]

You probably go to far more away games than me?

But when a couple posters on NSC criticised the fans who took their away seats last season and refused to move, the complainants were laughed at for not knowing the ropes.

It's a football match, not the theatre. That is the way it has always been, if you want your seats then you arrive early. Otherwise you can expect to fill the gaps. I'm not arguing for or against it, that is just the way it is.

This has never been a problem in the preceding years to the premier league, yes there was the odd spat but the majority of the time our fans would sort themselves out amicably. Many of the same fans have been going to games for years, even during our recent double promotion challenging seasons in the Championship, I could recognise so many faces from the years before.

Last season was very different, and despite the points system which should have in theory made it a 'closed shop' (it never was) there were many people who obviously had NEVER been to away games before, rocking up seconds before KO expecting people to oblige. When they were described the general eitquette, then screamed for a steward who would generally be less accomodating than the fans they're trying to oust.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I've had a bit of an email correspondence with Paul Barber over the last 24 hours or so on this subject - he has been very quick to reply and explain the club's thoughts. He has allowed me to share his latest correspondence which hopefully shows that the club are listening to everyone's concerns and that they are looking at possibilities to improve things:

"By way of an update, listening to and reading the challenges our fans see with the new away ticketing system, I asked our ticketing team to look at some different ways of protecting the club financially but also trying to be a bit more supportive and helpful to our fans at the same time. And we’ve made some progress today!

Again, I’m sure for some people what we’ve come up with won’t be a perfect solution but we do still need to marry the challenges of providing fans with as much choice as possible while not spending Tony’s money needlessly. If we can make our solution work from a technology point of view, I think it will be better than the current solution…watch this space…!"

 

[Goring-by-Seagull]

I like the idea of buying tickets first, then when sold out or a certain period after tickets originally went on sale, we can then go on to the ticket site again, in the same loyalty points order, to select seats.

Would it really be that difficult? "Not enough days in the week to spread out the extra needed use of the ticket site" - well they made last season more difficult for people than it needed to be by putting multiple home games on sale at the same time as away tickets.

So a couple of weeks after tickets first go on sale, when most have purchased and they have the seating plan and know the blocks being used, we can then go on and select where we'd like to be seated. Even do first come first serve for this part if necessary.

Even just being able to choose a block like last season would be a help!

 

[Giraffe]

Looking at lots of different options put forward by people here but I do think if it isn't broken then don't try and fix it.

Last season worked completely fine and I really do not believe it needed changing. It just needed the club to decide based on their knowledge of the supporter how large an allocation to ask for. I could do it for them, I already did, so why not do that and stick with the system that did so well last season.

I fear whatever fix they come up with for this will have unintended consequences which they perhaps can't see.

 

[Bozza]

I've just received the below from the Jenny Gower, which she was happy for me to share. It looks a very well thought out approach to the problem, and I struggle to see why anyone would be unhappy with this....

We have carefully listened to and reviewed the feedback we have had from away ticket purchasers following the new process we have followed for our opening away matches at Watford and Liverpool. We fully understand that everyone has individual seating preferences and, where possible, would like to choose where to sit at away matches as much as at the Amex. Clearly, there are limitations to this.

I should point out that the issue we have this season is that we are going on sale for away games earlier than we did last year - around 6 weeks before the fixture date. We are doing this as we must commit to our allocation with the away club a minimum of 4 weeks prior to the game and we want to ensure we have gauged demand before we commit to the allocation, as the tickets we opt for we must pay for.

Whilst we fully appreciate that supporters want as much choice and flexibility as possible, the club also has a responsibility to comply with the league’s regulations and, as importantly, not to waste money by committing to ticket allocations we can’t sell. Wherever possible, we put our fans first for their maximum enjoyment of each game but our club is run carefully and sensibly, and we do our best to marry all these things.

Going on sale earlier means we have to try to get information from the away clubs earlier. This isn’t always possible. Not all clubs are able to commit to providing us with seating maps or pricing. Where clubs have a lot of different allocation options for away fans they often don’t provide a visual representation of the different options (as this is a lot of work!) and instead just provide this when we commit to the allocation we wish to take.

In summary, we’ve been giving this issue a lot of thought and, recognising that no system will be perfect for everyone given the parameters we must work within, we propose to adopt the following process for the ticket sales to our remaining away matches. This will involve considerably more work, and will still have limitations that require our judgement to be trusted, but we believe it represents a better and fairer system for fans:

1. Games where we are 100% confident we will sell out of the full allocation and we have been given the seating maps (eg. Arsenal, Crystal Palace):

We will put the full allocation on sale online from the start, also allowing supporters visibility of the seating map to pick their seat. We must stress the map we draw is our best interpretation and can’t be 100% relied upon. Also, if we are left with single seats etc we reserve the right to move supporters around at our discretion to maximise the allocation we have taken. So we ask fans not to leave singles!

2. Games where we are not sure we will sell all 3,000 tickets, but we have been given the seating maps of the different allocation options (and those seating options are in the same area regardless of the allocation we take):

Here we will put the first allocation on sale at the start, allowing supporters visibility of the seating map to pick their seat. We must stress that the first seats we have to sell may not be the best seats, but as we do not know how many we will sell we must sell in priority order determined by the home club. Please also note that once a seat has been selected, we will not be able to move supporters at a later date if another block is released or better seats become available. If supporters do not like the option of the first seating block made available they may choose to wait until the next block opens, but there is no guarantee this will happen if the demand is not there. Again, the map we draw is our best interpretation and can’t be 100% relied upon. Once again, if we are left with single seats etc we reserve the right to move supporters around at our discretion to maximise the allocation we have taken. So, again, we ask fans not to leave singles!

3. Games where we are not given the seating maps or the area allocated varies depending on the allocation we are given:

Here we will build 6 dummy blocks of seating.

Request near front
Request near middle
Request near back
Request easy access seats
Request aisle seats
Wheelchair spaces

The easy access and aisle seats will be very limited in number and a priority number of easy access seats will be held for ambulant disabled fans. What we will do here is once we know the allocation we are committing to we will move supporters in priority order (earliest bookers first) in to the seating plan trying to match the request made. Those that book earliest will be put in the seats closest to their request first and supporters are advised to pick the requested block that closest meets their needs. Please note if we get 500 requests for ‘near front’ this may result in us allocating supporters up to row 15 or 20 of the block, with the first booker being in the front row.

We are aware there are no perfect solutions when we are not taking the full allocation, in the case of releasing block by block the first allocation is not always the best, or the end of the first allocation is not always better than that of the second allocation, but we are trying to be as fair and transparent as we can be when we do not know what allocation we will end up taking.

Finally, we are making these changes to ensure our supporters enjoy their away trips as much as possible. We will trial this new system and see how it works for supporters – and also for the club. Subject to how things work out, we may need to revise and change things as we go along. We will always try to meet our supporters’ needs but we must also maximise efficiency for the club.