[Albion] Change to away ticket sales process [Club update - post #140]

[Goldstone1976]

I've just received the below from the Jenny Gower, which she was happy for me to share. It looks a very well thought out approach to the problem, and I struggle to see why anyone would be unhappy with this....

We have carefully listened to and reviewed the feedback we have had from away ticket purchasers following the new process we have followed for our opening away matches at Watford and Liverpool. We fully understand that everyone has individual seating preferences and, where possible, would like to choose where to sit at away matches as much as at the Amex. Clearly, there are limitations to this.

I should point out that the issue we have this season is that we are going on sale for away games earlier than we did last year - around 6 weeks before the fixture date. We are doing this as we must commit to our allocation with the away club a minimum of 4 weeks prior to the game and we want to ensure we have gauged demand before we commit to the allocation, as the tickets we opt for we must pay for.

Whilst we fully appreciate that supporters want as much choice and flexibility as possible, the club also has a responsibility to comply with the league’s regulations and, as importantly, not to waste money by committing to ticket allocations we can’t sell. Wherever possible, we put our fans first for their maximum enjoyment of each game but our club is run carefully and sensibly, and we do our best to marry all these things.

Going on sale earlier means we have to try to get information from the away clubs earlier. This isn’t always possible. Not all clubs are able to commit to providing us with seating maps or pricing. Where clubs have a lot of different allocation options for away fans they often don’t provide a visual representation of the different options (as this is a lot of work!) and instead just provide this when we commit to the allocation we wish to take.

In summary, we’ve been giving this issue a lot of thought and, recognising that no system will be perfect for everyone given the parameters we must work within, we propose to adopt the following process for the ticket sales to our remaining away matches. This will involve considerably more work, and will still have limitations that require our judgement to be trusted, but we believe it represents a better and fairer system for fans:

1. Games where we are 100% confident we will sell out of the full allocation and we have been given the seating maps (eg. Arsenal, Crystal Palace):

We will put the full allocation on sale online from the start, also allowing supporters visibility of the seating map to pick their seat. We must stress the map we draw is our best interpretation and can’t be 100% relied upon. Also, if we are left with single seats etc we reserve the right to move supporters around at our discretion to maximise the allocation we have taken. So we ask fans not to leave singles!

2. Games where we are not sure we will sell all 3,000 tickets, but we have been given the seating maps of the different allocation options (and those seating options are in the same area regardless of the allocation we take):

Here we will put the first allocation on sale at the start, allowing supporters visibility of the seating map to pick their seat. We must stress that the first seats we have to sell may not be the best seats, but as we do not know how many we will sell we must sell in priority order determined by the home club. Please also note that once a seat has been selected, we will not be able to move supporters at a later date if another block is released or better seats become available. If supporters do not like the option of the first seating block made available they may choose to wait until the next block opens, but there is no guarantee this will happen if the demand is not there. Again, the map we draw is our best interpretation and can’t be 100% relied upon. Once again, if we are left with single seats etc we reserve the right to move supporters around at our discretion to maximise the allocation we have taken. So, again, we ask fans not to leave singles!

3. Games where we are not given the seating maps or the area allocated varies depending on the allocation we are given:

Here we will build 6 dummy blocks of seating.

Request near front
Request near middle
Request near back
Request easy access seats
Request aisle seats
Wheelchair spaces

The easy access and aisle seats will be very limited in number and a priority number of easy access seats will be held for ambulant disabled fans. What we will do here is once we know the allocation we are committing to we will move supporters in priority order (earliest bookers first) in to the seating plan trying to match the request made. Those that book earliest will be put in the seats closest to their request first and supporters are advised to pick the requested block that closest meets their needs. Please note if we get 500 requests for ‘near front’ this may result in us allocating supporters up to row 15 or 20 of the block, with the first booker being in the front row.

We are aware there are no perfect solutions when we are not taking the full allocation, in the case of releasing block by block the first allocation is not always the best, or the end of the first allocation is not always better than that of the second allocation, but we are trying to be as fair and transparent as we can be when we do not know what allocation we will end up taking.

Finally, we are making these changes to ensure our supporters enjoy their away trips as much as possible. We will trial this new system and see how it works for supporters – and also for the club. Subject to how things work out, we may need to revise and change things as we go along. We will always try to meet our supporters’ needs but we must also maximise efficiency for the club.

Two things:

1 That's an entirely reasonable and timely response to the issues raised - well done, club.

2 No way that Jenny wrote all that - thanks, PB.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I can see a problem with it, from experience. Request easy access could mean being near an exit, which is nowhere near the front in a lot of grounds.
Request near front does not help those who cannot stand for a long time, or are old, because as the memo says, it could be 15 rows back.
There has been many problems trying to get people in the second and front row to sit down let alone watch a game 15 rows back.

This is not helping those with special needs at all. Only 8% of disabled people use a wheelchair.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I don't know anyone who has ever claimed that he is an Albion fan, it is common knowledge he supports Spuds.

I wasn't suggesting that anyone thought he supported them just saying his passion of looking after Albion supporter is far from the top of his list at present because we have them coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden!

Maybe he should step back from his control over customer issues and get someone who has Albion in their DNA.


Just off the top of my head, err how about you El Pres ?

 

[Deadly Danson]

Seems to me to be a vast improvement and a good compromise. I'm sure there will still be issues but it can't be said that the club haven't listened and tried to find a workable solution.

 

[Giraffe]

I've just received the below from the Jenny Gower, which she was happy for me to share. It looks a very well thought out approach to the problem, and I struggle to see why anyone would be unhappy with this....

We have carefully listened to and reviewed the feedback we have had from away ticket purchasers following the new process we have followed for our opening away matches at Watford and Liverpool. We fully understand that everyone has individual seating preferences and, where possible, would like to choose where to sit at away matches as much as at the Amex. Clearly, there are limitations to this.

I should point out that the issue we have this season is that we are going on sale for away games earlier than we did last year - around 6 weeks before the fixture date. We are doing this as we must commit to our allocation with the away club a minimum of 4 weeks prior to the game and we want to ensure we have gauged demand before we commit to the allocation, as the tickets we opt for we must pay for.

Whilst we fully appreciate that supporters want as much choice and flexibility as possible, the club also has a responsibility to comply with the league’s regulations and, as importantly, not to waste money by committing to ticket allocations we can’t sell. Wherever possible, we put our fans first for their maximum enjoyment of each game but our club is run carefully and sensibly, and we do our best to marry all these things.

Going on sale earlier means we have to try to get information from the away clubs earlier. This isn’t always possible. Not all clubs are able to commit to providing us with seating maps or pricing. Where clubs have a lot of different allocation options for away fans they often don’t provide a visual representation of the different options (as this is a lot of work!) and instead just provide this when we commit to the allocation we wish to take.

In summary, we’ve been giving this issue a lot of thought and, recognising that no system will be perfect for everyone given the parameters we must work within, we propose to adopt the following process for the ticket sales to our remaining away matches. This will involve considerably more work, and will still have limitations that require our judgement to be trusted, but we believe it represents a better and fairer system for fans:

1. Games where we are 100% confident we will sell out of the full allocation and we have been given the seating maps (eg. Arsenal, Crystal Palace):

We will put the full allocation on sale online from the start, also allowing supporters visibility of the seating map to pick their seat. We must stress the map we draw is our best interpretation and can’t be 100% relied upon. Also, if we are left with single seats etc we reserve the right to move supporters around at our discretion to maximise the allocation we have taken. So we ask fans not to leave singles!

2. Games where we are not sure we will sell all 3,000 tickets, but we have been given the seating maps of the different allocation options (and those seating options are in the same area regardless of the allocation we take):

Here we will put the first allocation on sale at the start, allowing supporters visibility of the seating map to pick their seat. We must stress that the first seats we have to sell may not be the best seats, but as we do not know how many we will sell we must sell in priority order determined by the home club. Please also note that once a seat has been selected, we will not be able to move supporters at a later date if another block is released or better seats become available. If supporters do not like the option of the first seating block made available they may choose to wait until the next block opens, but there is no guarantee this will happen if the demand is not there. Again, the map we draw is our best interpretation and can’t be 100% relied upon. Once again, if we are left with single seats etc we reserve the right to move supporters around at our discretion to maximise the allocation we have taken. So, again, we ask fans not to leave singles!

3. Games where we are not given the seating maps or the area allocated varies depending on the allocation we are given:

Here we will build 6 dummy blocks of seating.

Request near front
Request near middle
Request near back
Request easy access seats
Request aisle seats
Wheelchair spaces

The easy access and aisle seats will be very limited in number and a priority number of easy access seats will be held for ambulant disabled fans. What we will do here is once we know the allocation we are committing to we will move supporters in priority order (earliest bookers first) in to the seating plan trying to match the request made. Those that book earliest will be put in the seats closest to their request first and supporters are advised to pick the requested block that closest meets their needs. Please note if we get 500 requests for ‘near front’ this may result in us allocating supporters up to row 15 or 20 of the block, with the first booker being in the front row.

We are aware there are no perfect solutions when we are not taking the full allocation, in the case of releasing block by block the first allocation is not always the best, or the end of the first allocation is not always better than that of the second allocation, but we are trying to be as fair and transparent as we can be when we do not know what allocation we will end up taking.

Finally, we are making these changes to ensure our supporters enjoy their away trips as much as possible. We will trial this new system and see how it works for supporters – and also for the club. Subject to how things work out, we may need to revise and change things as we go along. We will always try to meet our supporters’ needs but we must also maximise efficiency for the club.

It is a reasonable response, and I am grateful that they have looked at this quickly and responded.

However I still believe they are creating a rod for their own back here. They are already saying this involves a lot of work, and will be a manual process. That's money effectively. Secondly the chances of it not being perfect are much greater than in the previous system AND this time people will blame the club employee doing the selections for not following what they have chosen.

For the games where they are going to categorise near front, near middle, near back. Expect 80% will chose near middle, nailed on. I guess this doesn't really matter but no doubt someone choosing near middle and getting row 7 won't be as happy as they would've been under the old system when they could pretty much select their own seat.

Finally, for games where we are unsure we will sell out, that pretty much means the most loyal fans getting the worst seats if they don't chance not getting a seat and wait for the prospect of a further block. Which because they are loyal they won't do, so more loyal fans will get worse seats for these games.

It is a better response than what we currently have, but it is worse than last season, and I don't think it needs to be, given that a fairly accurate assessment of likely take up could be made. But it is an improvement.

I suppose it is also likely that as the season progresses and demand hopefully continues we may see option 1. used more often than not.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I wonder if there is any other Premier League club that would devote the time and energy that Jenny Gower and team have done to this or any other similar supporter issue. I'm sure we are all very appreciative (even the moany sod further up the page complaining about Paul Barber).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can’t say fairer than that.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I can see a problem with it, from experience. Request easy access could mean being near an exit, which is nowhere near the front in a lot of grounds.
Request near front does not help those who cannot stand for a long time, or are old, because as the memo says, it could be 15 rows back.
There has been many problems trying to get people in the second and front row to sit down let alone watch a game 15 rows back.

This is not helping those with special needs at all. Only 8% of disabled people use a wheelchair.

Great post. Thank you.
Sums up our predicament, we take my Father who is 80, and cannot stand for 90 mins.

He would stand if necessary, but it really is not ideal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It is a reasonable response, and I am grateful that they have looked at this quickly and responded.

However I still believe they are creating a rod for their own back here. They are already saying this involves a lot of work, and will be a manual process. That's money effectively. Secondly the chances of it not being perfect are much greater than in the previous system AND this time people will blame the club employee doing the selections for not following what they have chosen.

For the games where they are going to categorise near front, near middle, near back. Expect 80% will chose near middle, nailed on. I guess this doesn't really matter but no doubt someone choosing near middle and getting row 7 won't be as happy as they would've been under the old system when they could pretty much select their own seat.

Finally, for games where we are unsure we will sell out, that pretty much means the most loyal fans getting the worst seats if they don't chance not getting a seat and wait for the prospect of a further block. Which because they are loyal they won't do, so more loyal fans will get worse seats for these games.

It is a better response than what we currently have, but it is worse than last season, and I don't think it needs to be, given that a fairly accurate assessment of likely take up could be made. But it is an improvement.

I suppose it is also likely that as the season progresses and demand hopefully continues we may see option 1. used more often than not.

To be fair it is a compromise and one they didn't have to make. The club's issue is potential financial loss from unsold tickets. They have met in the middle.

 

[sully]

It's a football match, not the theatre. That is the way it has always been, if you want your seats then you arrive early. Otherwise you can expect to fill the gaps. I'm not arguing for or against it, that is just the way it is.

This has never been a problem in the preceding years to the premier league, yes there was the odd spat but the majority of the time our fans would sort themselves out amicably. Many of the same fans have been going to games for years, even during our recent double promotion challenging seasons in the Championship, I could recognise so many faces from the years before.

Last season was very different, and despite the points system which should have in theory made it a 'closed shop' (it never was) there were many people who obviously had NEVER been to away games before, rocking up seconds before KO expecting people to oblige. When they were described the general eitquette, then screamed for a steward who would generally be less accomodating than the fans they're trying to oust.

I’m sorry but you’re completely wrong.

I’ve been going to away games for many many years and since all seater stadiums came about, have ALWAYS sat in my allocated seat except at Grimsby away when I couldn’t get near it so sat at the front.

Claiming that “it’s not the theatre” and “it’s always been a free for all” ignores the fact that we no longer have terraces and that our away support now fills the allocation more often than not.

You don’t claim your right to sit where you like at the AMEX, so why is it so different away from home? Both have changed, yet you seem to think that only one situation applies to you.

It’s about time people started respecting others. If you’ve gone as much as you suggest, you will have first choice of block (or used to have), so your behaviour is even less excusable.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

I thought there was a plan to have some seats at away games where people had to sit and were not allowed to stand? Didn't PB propose this at a recent PL meeting? Did it not get any support?

 

[El Presidente]

I wasn't suggesting that anyone thought he supported them just saying his passion of looking after Albion supporter is far from the top of his list at present because we have them coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden!

Maybe he should step back from his control over customer issues and get someone who has Albion in their DNA.


Just off the top of my head, err how about you El Pres ?

Sorry MB, thanks for the offer, but I'm far too busy watching porn at midnight to be wasting time answering emails from fans the way that PB does.

 

[Ernest]

Sorry MB, thanks for the offer, but I'm far too busy watching porn at midnight to be wasting time answering emails from fans the way that PB does.

And you'd be USELESS on travel enquiries

 

[Billy the Fish]

I really hope people take this in good faith and acknowledge that the club is going out of their way to help.

My fear is that the ticket office get berated again when people aren't 100% happy with their seat. [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] is already criticising something that has been put together at incredibly short notice. They are never going to be able to accommodate everyone, people need to set their expectations correctly.

 

[theboybilly]

It seems to be as fair a system as the club can work to. As a less than abled person it can be the Devil of a job to get an ideal seat so that I just take what's given and try and work around it on the day. At some grounds a front row seat will work for me (and others who can't stand for 90 minutes) like Newcastle or Burnley as the away sections are elevated anyway (extremely so in the case of Toon) but others just don't. Old Trafford and Molineux have woeful legroom in the front rows and Anfield is almost below pitch level - you just can't take in what's happening down at the Kop end. So if some grey-haired old codger comes up to you and asks to swap seats (or indeed has pinched your seat in the hope nobody will notice) please be kind. Blimey I miss Barnsley and Wigan away

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I really hope people take this in good faith and acknowledge that the club is going out of their way to help.

My fear is that the ticket office get berated again when people aren't 100% happy with their seat. [MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] is already criticising something that has been put together at incredibly short notice. They are never going to be able to accommodate everyone, people need to set their expectations correctly.

People with special needs and disabled had a very good arrangement with customer services last season. I even sent in a copy of my consultant's letter so they knew my problems.
Now all of that is out of the window as far as I can see. I'm asking questions which don't seem to be answered.

It may not affect you now, but one day you might need it.

Where else has this been published apart from emails to Bozza?

 

[tronnogull]

It is very positive that the club have listened and made an effort to improve the situation.

What I really cannot understand is why it is hard for all clubs to provide seating plans showing which seats will be made available for each of the possible configurations of away supporter numbers. Exceptional circumstances ( possibly police advice ) aside they have managed hundreds of games with away fans and must have thought through what their options are.

If the Premier League made it a requirement to provide such seating plans it would surely assist every club.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I believe it will be announced officially shortly. I would hope that people in your situation will still be able to have an arrangement with the club.

 

[Bodian]

I love the way the club(s) steadfastly keep referring to 'seats' and 'sitting' at away games.....

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I believe it will be announced officially shortly. I would hope that people in your situation will still be able to have an arrangement with the club.

So would I, but the mention of special needs makes me wonder.