[Football] Cardiff City face Fifa transfer ban over fee dispute

[Triggaaar]

I see it differently. Cardiff agreed (and signed) a deal with Nantes in good faith. If for instance, Sala had not passed on and Nantes had insisted that actually, they'd had a better offer and that they wanted to cancel the deal then Cardiff would have almost certainly told them where to go.

And similarly, if the Premier League had refused to clear the deal, then he would have remained with Nantes. The contracts signed are signed subject to clearance. Until that clearance, he's a Nantes player.

Ultimately, this is why clubs insure the lives and careers of their players - their assets. If there's some reason, such as issues relating to the nature of Sala's flight (e.g. aircraft and pilot), have rendered any insurance claim null and void then again Cardiff only have themselves to blame.

Well if he was a Nantes player, then surely you mean Nantes only have themselves to blame.

If I buy, for example, an antique vase and sign a contract with the dealer in which I agree to pay a certain price for it, and subsequently drop it through no fault of the seller, then suggesting I no longer want to pay for it since it now has no value is surely morally wrong. Even if a technicality in the contract means that I can avoid paying for it, it does not mean that, morally speaking, I should. That woud be classless.

Cardiff didn't 'drop the vase', so the comparison doesn't make sense. How about if you bought the vase from the seller on ebay, and they sent it, and if got broken in transit? Would you still pay? Would you bollox.

The same is true here. I apologise for the cold use of language here when talking about a human life

Understood, we're talking about the issue at hand, and not meaning to ignore or make light of the fact that what matters the most is the loss of people's lives, and they can't be brought back.

but they agreed to pay for an asset, had its value reduced to zero having failed to protect it accordingly, and so the onus remains on them to make good on that payment.

You have no evidence that it was Cardiff's fault that the 'asset' wasn't protected, and indeed no evidence that he was a Cardiff player. If he was still a Nantes player, then they should have looked after him until he was no longer their player. You could equally argue that Nantes no longer cared about him or his safety, despite the fact he was still their player - they just stopped caring because he was planning to leave.

In the case of Sala, the plane in question was not appropriate for flying in bad weather, the pilot was not permitted to fly commercial passengers and was not qualified to fly at night (all of which happened). If it hasn't already, I'm sure in time the flight will be proven to have been illegal.

Understood, but we don't really have knowledge of how he came to take that flight do we? I don't think it's right just to assume it's Cardiff's fault. Not without some evidence that they had some knowledge it was happening (all the details you gave).

Someone, somewhere - not least the man flying the plane - will have known that. Had transport been organised properly that simply would not have happened. But Cardiff, either through direct involvement in organising the flight or failing to organise something properly themselves, were tinpot. They were classless.

What if Cardiff told him not to fly back to France?

 

[Triggaaar]

And FIFA who’ve seen all the evidence, concur.

You trust FIFA to come to the right conclusion on legal matters? Christ, could there be a more inappropriate judge? Perhaps the Pope.

 

[Weststander]

You trust FIFA to come to the right conclusion on legal matters? Christ, could there be a more inappropriate judge? Perhaps the Pope.

The Court Of Arbitration For Sport will decide. Shirley we can’t say they’re unjust too.

 

[Poojah]

And similarly, if the Premier League had refused to clear the deal, then he would have remained with Nantes. The contracts signed are signed subject to clearance. Until that clearance, he's a Nantes player.

Well if he was a Nantes player, then surely you mean Nantes only have themselves to blame.

Cardiff didn't 'drop the vase', so the comparison doesn't make sense. How about if you bought the vase from the seller on ebay, and they sent it, and if got broken in transit? Would you still pay? Would you bollox.

Understood, we're talking about the issue at hand, and not meaning to ignore or make light of the fact that what matters the most is the loss of people's lives, and they can't be brought back.

You have no evidence that it was Cardiff's fault that the 'asset' wasn't protected, and indeed no evidence that he was a Cardiff player. If he was still a Nantes player, then they should have looked after him until he was no longer their player. You could equally argue that Nantes no longer cared about him or his safety, despite the fact he was still their player - they just stopped caring because he was planning to leave.

Understood, but we don't really have knowledge of how he came to take that flight do we? I don't think it's right just to assume it's Cardiff's fault. Not without some evidence that they had some knowledge it was happening (all the details you gave).

What if Cardiff told him not to fly back to France?

I'm going to be honest and say that I frankly can't be arsed to dissect your ripsote, bit by bit, at 10:30 on a Monday evening. I will simply say that Cardiff had unveiled Sala as a Cardiff player and will have considered him their player at the time. It is only now that it is seemingly convenient to them financially they they consider him not to have been.

The rest of my argument stems from information that has been quite widely published in the media. From what I've read from multiple sources, Cardiff (as well as his agents) have not covered themselves in glory at any point.

I just find it sad that this young man's needless death has beed reduced to a tit-for-tat battle about who has to pay. The real victims are Emiliano Sala and his family (particularly his father who has already died as a result of grief). He was a mere pawn in a financially motivated game.

 

[Triggaaar]

The Court Of Arbitration For Sport will decide. Shirley we can’t say they’re unjust too.

Nope, I trust them. If one of the teams doesn't agree with their decision, I'd want to have some understanding as to why before I threw any accusations though.

I'm just not on this particular bandwagon of 'you're so classless'. So easy to say when it's someone else's £25 million.

 

[Pickles]

Show some class Cardiff, you shitebirds.

Bang on.

Can you imagine Tony Bloom piss,ing about with this.

Unreal.

 

[drew]

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/player-emiliano-sala.pdf?cloudid=zz1mucunt6ydvrzqrqdw

To avoid the guess work, here's the ruling by FIFA.

The crux of it is that Cardiff are arguing on a technicality that the documentation for the transfer wasn't complete. They argued that the panel that heard the case weren't the correct panel. They argued that the case should not be heard until civil claims were sorted and any criminal case decided.

The panel decided that all conditions of the transfer had been met. If any documentation was outstanding, that was down to the Cardiff and the league/FAW, nothing to do with Nantes.

No doubt in view of the sums involved Cardiff will take it to CAS.

Wasn't sure why all the talk was about the first instalment but FIFA pointed out that they couldn't rule on the 2nd and 3rd instalments as they weren't due until 2020 and 2021.

 

[Saunders]

International clearance is between Football Associations, not the Premier League. The English FA apply for clearance from the French FA.

As I understand it, Cardiff had expected Sala to fly on a normal commercial flight. It seems his agent allegedly arranged the cheap flight back.

If it breaks the signing fees how can it be ratified by FIFA or the French FA? I am quoting what Cardiff has said that the Premier League which is run by the Engish FA refused it and why would they apply for clearance when it didnt qualify.

Edit to add FIFA doesnt have a great history with court cases

 

[Saunders]

Bang on.

Can you imagine Tony Bloom piss,ing about with this.

Unreal.

We wouldnt have put a 15 million asset on a flight like that in the first place though.

 

[Triggaaar]

We wouldnt have put a 15 million asset on a flight like that in the first place though.

TB is suggesting Cardiff didn't either:

As I understand it, Cardiff had expected Sala to fly on a normal commercial flight. It seems his agent allegedly arranged the cheap flight back.

 

[Yoda]

If that is true...

so that's a big IF,

then he clearly wasn't a Cardiff player, and it's clearly Nantes that are being classless, in asking for payment for a player that was never going to join another club, because the league had rejected the deal. Had the plane not crashed, he'd have headed back to Nantes, as he was their player.

According to this report (https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ll-fifa-emiliano-sala-transfer-invalid-nantes) FIFA registered the international transfer certificate on 21st January 2019 at 5.30pm. A few hours before his plane came down.

 

[drew]

If it breaks the signing fees how can it be ratified by FIFA or the French FA? I am quoting what Cardiff has said that the Premier League which is run by the Engish FA refused it and why would they apply for clearance when it didnt qualify.

Edit to add FIFA doesnt have a great history with court cases

Have you read the ruling?

 

[Saunders]

Have you read the ruling?

Yes

As per clause 2.2. of the transfer agreement, “both parties shall use all reasonable endeavours to ensure that the conditions are satisfied no later than 22 January 2019. If the conditions are not fulfilled within this period then this Transfer Agreement shall be null and void. In such event: 2.2.1. this Transfer Agreement shall cease to have legal effect; 2.2.2. no payment shall be due from Cardiff City FC to FC Nantes; 2.2.3. neither partyshall have any ongoing obligations or liability in relation to this Transfer Agreement.”

He died on the 21 without signing the amendmended contract.

2.1.4. the LFP and the FAW[i.e.the Football Association of Wales] have confirmed to Cardiff City FC and FC Nantes that the Player has been registered as a Cardiff City FC player and that the Player’s International Transfer Certificate has been released.”

Doesnt mention the English FA or Premier League this is typical FIFA idiocy along the lines of when they tried to make out FIFA was a charity in court.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If it breaks the signing fees how can it be ratified by FIFA or the French FA? I am quoting what Cardiff has said that the Premier League which is run by the Engish FA refused it and why would they apply for clearance when it didnt qualify.

Edit to add FIFA doesnt have a great history with court cases

The Premier League and the FA are separate entities.

 

[Triggaaar]

According to this report (https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ll-fifa-emiliano-sala-transfer-invalid-nantes) FIFA registered the international transfer certificate on 21st January 2019 at 5.30pm. A few hours before his plane came down.

I'm sure we'll find out if that was enough to make him a Cardiff player. There are also the claims that the Premier League rejected the transfer - I've no idea if that's true or not.

When you buy a house, you exchange contracts and pay a deposit, but you don't pay the rest until completion (often about a month after exchange). There are rules in place for what happens if the property is destroyed in the time period between exchange and completion, covering who owns the property and whose responsibility it is to insure it. It seems odd that there aren't similar rules for football players, who tend to cost a lot more than our houses.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

2 season transfer ban and a fine.

It's disgusting how they've tried hiding behind his death to avoid a contractual payment.

 

[Saunders]

The Premier League and the FA are separate entities.

I know thats why I mentioned them both as either or both would need to. FIFA is a separate entity too.

 

[nicko31]

FIFA and Cardiff, a match made in heaven...

 

[Saunders]

TB is suggesting Cardiff didn't either:

Yea but that agent regulary arranged flights for cardiff including flying Warnock to Nantes. Can you imagine us flying our manager in one of those let alone a player

 

[Tokyohands]

Cardiff had announced him as their player. They should cough up as they had bought him in good faith regardless of any paper technicality.