Can Labour actually win the next election and make a difference?

[Biscuit]

I heard Ed Balls on radio 4 yesterday. He sounded like a leader to me. Drop Milliband for Balls and I think Labour could make significant gains.

 

[somerset]

Milliband as useless as I think he is as a leader, is starting to make the right noises.........

Its a perception only due to the fact that its the Labour conference this week,...with all that dedicated publicity and spin.

What I have found amusing, is that there was this week a clear statement and admission of immigration failures from the last Labour government, and a strong statement that they will put in stricter immigration controls and limits if they get voted in next time, and you know what?... not a single one of you have jumped on them for it. If that was a Conservative statement, there would have been outrage and accusations of racism and Nazis would have been thrown around with gay abandon. Just an observation.

 

[sten_super]

I heard Ed Balls on radio 4 yesterday. He sounded like a leader to me. Drop Milliband for Balls and I think Labour could make significant gains.

Haha, are you being serious? Ed Balls is perceived to have lost the economic argument to George bloody Osbourne. I wouldn't trust him to find his way out of a wet paper bag, let alone lead a major political party.

 

[severnside gull]

Labour under Milliband are probably unelectable (I'm sure they picked the wrong brother by mistake) but could they make a difference?
As a pensioner with no additional income I am at the sharp end of call-me-Dave's elitist policies and as for the other guy (can't remember his name - Clog or something like that?) - he has no ability to put a policy into effect if he did have one.

Desperate times but yes, Labour could only improve my lot if they first elect a new leader.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I heard Ed Balls on radio 4 yesterday. He sounded like a leader to me. Drop Milliband for Balls and I think Labour could make significant gains.

I suspect the next Govt will be another coalition and one of the reasons is a lack of a 'Blair-esque' charismatic leader in any party to capture the voters imaginations. You can already see the unsubtle manoeuvring by both the LibDems and Labour to cosy up to each other.

None of Miliband, Balls, Cameron, Osborne, Clegg or even Farage exactly get the juices flowing or have an outstanding record that might attract a landslide vote. Without an injection of charisma I can see continuing voter apathy which will only make a coalition more likely. OK there is still time for a dark horse to emerge especially if the current leaders trip themselves up, which often happens.

I can see a power struggle in each party with Balls and Boris respectively seeking the top job, although I'm not sure if Boris is eligible.

Balls is a political heavyweight and no doubt aspires to the top Labour job but being the architect of Gordon Brown's fiscal policies is too closely associated with failing to rein in the banks, allowing reckless public spending, plundering pension schemes, selling off gold reserves and presiding over a spiralling national debt among other issues. I cannot see how he can camouflage his track record and not be a sitting duck for his critics. He is seriously damaged goods and only still in the frame because Labour don't have credible alternative candidates, which speaks volumes for their predicament. Otherwise they wouldn't have Miliband as leader.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Haha, are you being serious? Ed Balls is perceived to have lost the economic argument to George bloody Osbourne. I wouldn't trust him to find his way out of a wet paper bag, let alone lead a major political party.

I would trust Ed Balls to not mix up metaphores though; it's punching your way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I suspect the next Govt will be another coalition and one of the reasons is a lack of a 'Blair-esque' charismatic leader in any party to capture the voters imaginations. You can already see the unsubtle manoeuvring by both the LibDems and Labour to cosy up to each other.

None of Miliband, Balls, Cameron, Osborne, Clegg or even Farage exactly get the juices flowing or have an outstanding record that might attract a landslide vote. Without an injection of charisma I can see continuing voter apathy which will only make a coalition more likely. OK there is still time for a dark horse to emerge especially if the current leaders trip themselves up, which often happens.

I can see a power struggle in each party with Balls and Boris respectively seeking the top job, although I'm not sure if Boris is eligible.

Balls is a political heavyweight and no doubt aspires to the top Labour job but being the architect of Gordon Brown's fiscal policies is too closely associated with failing to rein in the banks, allowing reckless public spending, plundering pension schemes, selling off gold reserves and presiding over a spiralling national debt among other issues. I cannot see how he can camouflage his track record and not be a sitting duck for his critics. He is seriously damaged goods and only still in the frame because Labour don't have credible alternative candidates, which speaks volumes for their predicament. Otherwise they wouldn't have Miliband as leader.

I think we should get used to the idea of coalitions. They're not, per se, a bad thing. In fact, there are many good arguments for.

 

[sten_super]

I would trust Ed Balls to not mix up metaphores though; it's punching your way out of a wet paper bag.

Yes, I know, and it was deliberate. I don't think he could find his way out either by fighting nor by using his noggin.

edit to add: I agree with Seagull over Canaryland. The fact that Balls is in the running is a damning indictment of the rest of the Labour front bench. What they need is a charismatic young backbencher who isn't tainted by the Brown years. I also

 

[supaseagull]

Hopefully not and definitely no they wouldn't. They got us in this mess to start with

Yawny yawn yawn!

Were Labour also to blame for what happened to the Greek, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese economies?

In case you have been asleep for the last 5 years, there's a WORLDWIDE financial crisis which would have occurred whether Labour, Conservative or Lib Dems had been in power.

The Tories voted with and agreed with Labour's fiscal policies all through the 2000's.

 

[drew]

I would guess if you let more people in the government get more back in taxes, but if I have got the wrong end of the stick tell me.

I see where you are coming from but the jobs they take are then not available for uk nationals who end up claiming benefit.

High Street shops closing is more to do with a lack of consumer confidence and lack of money than rates. You can have 0 rates but if there is no punters with the money and the confidence to spend it then it means nothing. And all the time we race to the bottom with 0 hours contracts, more and more people being employed by huge companies (paying 0 corporation tax) paying minimum wages then there will not be enough confidence in consumers to be able to make up the huge amount of puchases you need to gain the growth the UK is looking for.

As an aside, Osborne is banging on about the current upturn in the economy which is seemingly based on housing. Has the UK learnt nothing from the past 5 years? Seriously, how ****ing idiotic. Why not make some shit to sell. The UK economy is utterly ****ed and it will take a total mind reset not pissing about with rates.

My message is MAKE SOME STUFF.

Don't necessarily disagree but let's be honest, there are people spending money though it just not enough to keep some shops going through the recession whereas a break and/or reduction in business rates may help them turn the corner.

If Labour get in then people have very short memories.
If they were still in then even more borrowing, Gib and the Falklands given away, the EU taking over, and NO gold to prop us up.
The Scottish Raj, ie Brown PM (Kilcaddy and Cowdenbeath) Darling Chancellor (Edinburgh West) Gorbals Mick (Speaker of the house) John Reid etc.
England were being shafted, oilfield borders being moved north of the border, even financial help/bail out for Browns local building society, the Clydesdale.
Scotland, Wales, NI, have their own parliaments/assemblies, which ONLY their MP's are allowed to vote on their own issues, sadly England does not have it's own Parliament, which is why about 110 MP's from the other UK countries can vote on OUR issues. In short the PM and Chancellor with Scottish constituencies and others were running our country, which shows when England are bottom of the league when the money is doled out per person.
By the way, i'm not a fan of the Tories either, not keen on any of the snouts in trough parties.

What a load of hogwash. Where is your evidence that Labour plan to offload Gibraltar and the Falklands? Do you think we aren't borrowing now and as for the gold, you do realise that we still have gold reserves and no further sales were made after 2002. Any evidence that Labour moved oilfield borders north and if they did, was this based on scientific evidence? Yes, there are questions about not having an English parliament or, alternatively, not allowing the Welsh, Northern Irish and Scots to vote on pure English affairs. As for the distribution of public spending, you could argue that in the south east we get a raw deal as per head we get less than any other region, almost £2k per head less than the north east.

 

[supaseagull]

Anyway as a Labour voter, there's no chance in hell they will win the next election.

Tories will win it with an increased majority.

 

[Biscuit]

Haha, are you being serious? Ed Balls is perceived to have lost the economic argument to George bloody Osbourne. I wouldn't trust him to find his way out of a wet paper bag, let alone lead a major political party.

Yes to the first bit, no to the second.

Balls sounded more like a leader than Milliband ever has I'm afraid. Certainly the best person Labour has for the job, admitedly slim pickings.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Yawny yawn yawn!

Were Labour also to blame for what happened to the Greek, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese economies?

In case you have been asleep for the last 5 years, there's a WORLDWIDE financial crisis which would have occurred whether Labour, Conservative or Lib Dems had been in power.

The Tories voted with and agreed with Labour's fiscal policies all through the 2000's.

Worldwide financial crisis - yes, but sadly much of it brought about by deregulation of the Banks and lack of intervention by Govt in the UK.

It created a culture where the banks thought they could do as they liked, and they took full advantage. Blair and Brown looked the other way because it conveniently fed their 'spend, spend, spend feel good Britannia' credit fuelled spending frenzy. It is a combination of the fall out from 2008 when all these debts came home to roost, on top of historical financial laxity and tax avoidance within the countries like Greece that has subsequently derailed theirs and other economies etc. Greece and others were stampeded into the Euro when it was clear they did not have the financial controls to comply. The UK Govt condoned that. As a result the UK has had to stump up precious £billions of yours and my own money to create a Euro bail out fund to save Greece etc, when we could have used this to save our own economy.

Who was supposedly 'in control' at the time? - that well known financial guru Gordon 'prudence,prudence,prudence' Brown and his right hand man, Ed Balls. I was a long term labour party member and supporter but finally lost patience with them in the mid 2000s. I am ashamed that history will forever associate them with that unenviable record on our economy.

 

[drew]

Worldwide financial crisis - yes, but sadly much of it brought about by deregulation of the Banks and lack of intervention by Govt in the UK.

It created a culture where the banks thought they could do as they liked, and they took full advantage. Blair and Brown looked the other way because it conveniently fed their 'spend, spend, spend feel good Britannia' credit fuelled spending frenzy. It is a combination of the fall out from 2008 when all these debts came home to roost, on top of historical financial laxity and tax avoidance within the countries like Greece that has subsequently derailed theirs and other economies etc. Greece and others were stampeded into the Euro when it was clear they did not have the financial controls to comply. The UK Govt condoned that. As a result the UK has had to stump up precious £billions of yours and my own money to create a Euro bail out fund to save Greece etc, when we could have used this to save our own economy.

Who was supposedly 'in control' at the time? - that well known financial guru Gordon 'prudence,prudence,prudence' Brown and his right hand man, Ed Balls. I was a long term labour party member and supporter but finally lost patience with them in the mid 2000s. I am ashamed that history will forever associate them with that unenviable record on our economy.

Can you be specific about what deregulation you are referring to? Deregulation of banks started in the 80s so you need to identify exactly what you are referring to. As for Greece and others stampeding into the Euro, exactly how would we stop that when it is an institution we are not part of? Also, in your view, what would the ramifications be to our economy had the Euro failed? And finally, exactly when did Cameron and Osbourne start bleating about the impending danger?

 

[strings]

Who was supposedly 'in control' at the time? - that well known financial guru Gordon 'prudence,prudence,prudence' Brown and his right hand man, Ed Balls. I was a long term labour party member and supporter but finally lost patience with them in the mid 2000s. I am ashamed that history will forever associate them with that unenviable record on our economy.

I agree with the thrust of your post. But it is worth remembering that the Tories (especially under Hague) were arguing for further deregulation of the Banks at the time. Labour did a lot wrong, but I am not convinced that any of the other major parties would have made any better decisions.

It seems to me that Western culture from Governments all the way down to consumers was obsessed with buying things on credit.

I worry what will happen in 20-odd years time when all of the PFI initiatives run out. As I understand things, the majority of PFI hospitals were effectively bought on credit. Therefore future Governments will be forced to bear the cost and pay for hospitals that (by the time we actually have to pay for them) will be outdated. This, for me, was Labour's major financial irresponsibility from the 'boom' years.

As you can probably tell, I don't support any particular party!

 

[beorhthelm]

I worry what will happen in 20-odd years time when all of the PFI initiatives run out. As I understand things, the majority of PFI hospitals were effectively bought on credit.

we shouldnt worry about it in twenty year, its already happening, the public expeniture in areas is hamstrung by having to service those deals. it was a great way of hiding the real cost and public debt though. i dont think we really realise the full extent and impact to future budgets yet.

on Miliband, i'll note he shapped the current energy policy that may leave us with insufficient power the end of this decade, unless someone pulls finger out.

 

[Titanic]

It won't happen before the next election and if the Jocks vote to stay in the GB then the SNP will be a busted flush so Labour could grab even more seats north of the border

The Scotland independence vote (18th September 2014) is 10 MONTHS before the next general election (7th May 2015). If they vote yes, there is NO WAY Scotland would be allowed to return MPs to the Westminster parliament. That would be completely ridiculous.

 

[Soulman]

we shouldnt worry about it in twenty year, its already happening, the public expeniture in areas is hamstrung by having to service those deals. it was a great way of hiding the real cost and public debt though. i dont think we really realise the full extent and impact to future budgets yet.

Yep, in the 2000's i worked on schools and hospitals. Great the people/voters said, new schools/hospitals etc.....good old labour. Unfortunately the people/voters did not know that the building companies were paying for the whole project and then renting them back over a 30 year period to the governing bodies.
The building firms would supply everything from pens, paper, medical equipment etc.....so these buildings were not built by government funding, instead the government were squandering our taxes elsewhere.
Just around this area, Brighton's Children Hospital funded by the Japanese firm that built it, 3 schools around Crawley Thomas Bennet, Maidenbower, Ifield....funded by HBG a big building and Dredging company.
All these buildings without a penny contributed by the then Labour government.......but being paid for handsomely ever since.
Emperor's Clothes springs to mind.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It is conceivable that Labour could win the next election, or be the largest coalition partner, but right now Ed Miliband doesn't look like a Prime Minister in waiting and Labour's policies still seem to be based on spending more money.

They really don't seem to have grasped the concept that government spending needs to be curtailed, and money given back to individuals and businesses to spend as they see fit.

Civil servants are shit at spending money wisely, but very good at wasting money. I can live with paying vast amounts of tax to his government if they improve the economy and look to cut taxes, but God help us if Balls and co get their hands on the purse strings again.

I suspect that in 2015 it will still be too soon for Labour to be returned to office because not enough voters will be prepared to trust them on the economy.

 

[Left Back]

I would trust Ed Balls to not mix up metaphores though; it's punching your way out of a wet paper bag.

metaphors