[Football] Can England finally knockout a BIG team on foreign soil?

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

So what we're saying is that we always get knocked out by the first 'decent/big' team we face? And have done for the past 60 years at least?

So if it happens again against the reigning World Champions it'll definitely be a disaster, unforeseen and proof that the manager is shit?

#waistcoatwanker
#everymanagerwe'veeverhadwould'vebeatenfrance
#everymanagerwe'veneverhadwould'vebeatenfrance

or


#Englandgotlucky

 

[Justice]

Southgate gets a proper kicking on here. Not justified in my humble opinion.

Not just on here it seems a large percentage of fans across the nation think the same. We sat back against Italy after the goal inviting pressure, same against Croatia. He’s cocky beating the teams we should beat then goes all Hughton against the decent sides.
Guarantee the same will happen against France we will end up playing with a flat back five.

 

[1066familyman]

I doubt heaven will forfend anything , the muppet on the other hand , who knows , does he ?

Lets face it you know what i mean about the players abilities carrying us , their instinct and knowledge of each others game from playing in the prem will be key to our success , certainly not ugly bollocks` tactical nous .

If you genuinely believe Southgate to be anything more than an FA brown nose yes man then you must be palace , i say again 29.8% win rate at Boro over a 3 year period , that`s consistency , consistently SHITE ! .

I can't tell if I'm being whooshed or not.

If I'm not, then I feel sorry for you that you can't see that Southgate is the most successful England manager we've had since Alf Ramsey. Furthermore, Southgate isn't even finished yet. He may yet turn out to be more successful than Ramsey even.

 

[nicko31]

I doubt heaven will forfend anything , the muppet on the other hand , who knows , does he ?

Lets face it you know what i mean about the players abilities carrying us , their instinct and knowledge of each others game from playing in the prem will be key to our success , certainly not ugly bollocks` tactical nous .

If you genuinely believe Southgate to be anything more than an FA brown nose yes man then you must be palace , i say again 29.8% win rate at Boro over a 3 year period , that`s consistency , consistently SHITE ! .

But really who cares what happened at Boro. Whatever happens on Saturday he's achieved more with England than anyone since Sir Alf.

Of course we all hope he can go one better, winning a major competition today is harder than 1966

 

[Jeremiah]

Should we defeat the French then it would appear that Portugal have got another fine side together for this World Cup.

Big challenges ahead for us but here's hoping.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Should we defeat the French then it would appear that Portugal have got another fine side together for this World Cup.

Big challenges ahead for us but here's hoping.

I'd say huge challenge. To win it our likely path will be France, Portugal, Brazil or Argentina. In the space of 8 days. Baring in mind we haven't beaten a 'major' nation in a knockout game on foreign soil it looks like a nigh on impossible task. That won't stop certain people slagging off the manager though.

Just think if we were to win the world cup we would have done it by most likely knocking out the African champions, the world champions, one of the top European teams and in the final either the south American champions or the tournament favourites. Southgate still wouldn't get any credit...

 

[Insel affe]

Should we defeat the French then it would appear that Portugal have got another fine side together for this World Cup.

Big challenges ahead for us but here's hoping.

Switzerland were dire, and made Portugal look better than they are, much like Spain beating Costa Rica, we can beat them both if we are up for it playing wise and if the manager is brave and learns from the mistakes in the Croatia and Italy games.

 

[nicko31]

I'd say huge challenge. To win it our likely path will be France, Portugal, Brazil or Argentina. In the space of 8 days. Baring in mind we haven't beaten a 'major' nation in a knockout game on foreign soil it looks like a nigh on impossible task. That won't stop certain people slagging off the manager though.

Just think if we were to win the world cup we would have done it by most likely knocking out the African champions, the world champions, one of the top European teams and in the final either the south American champions or the tournament favourites. Southgate still wouldn't get any credit...

Yes the route is way harder than 2018 where we had an easy route to semi and the Croatia who honestly weren't that good. Are we better than we were in 2018, I think we are...

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Yes the route is way harder than 2018 where we had an easy route to semi and the Croatia who honestly weren't that good. Are we better than we were in 2018, I think we are...

That 2018 team should have got nowhere near the semi's. That's what made it so much fun. I think this years team is much stronger. We have loads more attacking options, all with the experience of last year and reaching a final.

Our midfield is stronger and better balanced than 2018 too. That midfield consisted of Henderson running himself ragged holding things together while being paired(trio-ed?) with Dele Alli and Jesse Lindgard.

We had Ashley Young at LWB too I think so I think it's fair to say we're a better team now. It's still a ridiculously tall task to win it though. It would be a sensational achievement.

 

[TugWilson]

But really who cares what happened at Boro. Whatever happens on Saturday he's achieved more with England than anyone since Sir Alf.

Of course we all hope he can go one better, winning a major competition today is harder than 1966

You`re spot on , how garbage he was at Boro has absolutely no reflection on Saturday`s game . However the players he has at his disposal are light years ahead of not only Boro but what Sir Alf had . And yes i do know the list of heroes England had , but they were of their time . I have read on here how this is the best squad we have ever had , that means above the likes of Ward Mellor Sully Ryan Foster and countless others , it`s called progression .

Ask yourself one question , if England win the WC would you want him or De Zerbi , or Potter , Or even Hughton ? .

 

[TugWilson]

I can't tell if I'm being whooshed or not.

If I'm not, then I feel sorry for you that you can't see that Southgate is the most successful England manager we've had since Alf Ramsey. Furthermore, Southgate isn't even finished yet. He may yet turn out to be more successful than Ramsey even.

I agree , apart from everything you say , southgate is a delegator not a hands on manager . Yes i hear the spiel , but you know you could name 3 managers better than him in a heartbeat , and so could any of us , but we are doing well so lets all give the credit to a man with zero tactical sense and not the players who are head and shoulders above his best on their worst day .

 

[LamieRobertson]

I don’t know

 

[1066familyman]

You`re spot on , how garbage he was at Boro has absolutely no reflection on Saturday`s game . However the players he has at his disposal are light years ahead of not only Boro but what Sir Alf had . And yes i do know the list of heroes England had , but they were of their time . I have read on here how this is the best squad we have ever had , that means above the likes of Ward Mellor Sully Ryan Foster and countless others , it`s called progression .

Ask yourself one question , if England win the WC would you want him or De Zerbi , or Potter , Or even Hughton ? .

I wouldn't want Southgate anywhere near the Albion. His game management and approach to the game in general, week in week out, would leave me in the same place I was with Hughton - bored. Also, I'm absolutely over the moon with De Zerbi and was a big Potter fan too.

What Southgate does so well is build togetherness in a squad of players to get the best out of them in a tournament situation and progress through tournaments to the point of being in with a great shout of winning them. He's done that consistently and is doing it again. Quite frankly, I can't think of another manager I'd rather have in charge of the England team at the moment.

 

[Poojah]

I agree , apart from everything you say , southgate is a delegator not a hands on manager . Yes i hear the spiel , but you know you could name 3 managers betteri than him in a heartbeat , and so could any of us , but we are doing well so lets all give the credit to a man with zero tactical sense and not the players who are head and shoulders above his best on their worst day .

TLDR; I don’t mind Southgate

In my lifetime, Bobby Robson, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Erickson, Fabio Capello and Roy Hodgson all had comparatively stellar managerial CVs. None of them have done as well in the England dugout as Southgate. Capello and Hodgson in particular were absolute car crashes.

In fact, going into this job, Southgate had by far the weakest CV of any England manager I can recall, and probably in recent history if not all time. He got the job because Allardyce got caught with his pants down and no one of any repute whatsoever wanted to touch the job with a barge pole. England were an embarrassment. It was the most toxic of poisoned chalices.

And yet despite all that, he’s achieved what he’s achieved. Talk about the players at his disposal all you like. He hasn’t had Robson, Lineker, Gascoigne, Shearer, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Owen, Lampard, Rooney, just off the top of my head.

Would you swap Pickford for Seaman? Luke Shaw for Ashley Cole? Maguire and Stones for Ferdinand and Campbell? You’re almost certainly lying to yourself if you say you wouldn’t.

Yes, we have a talented young crop of players right now, but I’m not convinced it is significantly more so than those squads which have failed before, and often failed dismally.

I get criticism of Southgate when we’re getting smashed by the likes of Hungary and getting relegated in the Nations League, though the double standards on display is at times perplexing. Had we won the Nations League, and found ourselves out of the World Cup - like Germany, like Belgium, like Spain - would anyone be using that victory as a defence? Would they f***. It doesn’t matter.

The reluctance to give Southgate credit for anything is just bizarre. So many England managers have failed to get a grip of the egos in the dressing room, and even more so the media. Southgate has nailed it. Only then, can the god-given talent of our squad fulfil its potential.

Do I think we can beat France? Yeah, I think we can. Do I think we will? Yeah, I f***ing do. Will I be right? Who knows. But Southgate has got me excited and interested in a World Cup I vowed not to give a shit about before it started; more or less the exact opposite of every tournament between Euro 96 and Southgate’s maiden World Cup in 2018.

I’ll stop short of “it’s coming home”, that would be some achievement. But, sat here, it feels vaguely possible and I can’t say I have felt that way about a World Cup at any time in my adult life before.

 

[Bodian]

Bit of a merge of another thread and this one really.

 

[TugWilson]

TLDR; I don’t mind Southgate

In my lifetime, Bobby Robson, Terry Venables, Sven Goran Erickson, Fabio Capello and Roy Hodgson all had comparatively stellar managerial CVs. None of them have done as well in the England dugout as Southgate. Capello and Hodgson in particular were absolute car crashes.

In fact, going into this job, Southgate had by far the weakest CV of any England manager I can recall, and probably in recent history if not all time. He got the job because Allardyce got caught with his pants down and no one of any repute whatsoever wanted to touch the job with a barge pole. England were an embarrassment. It was the most toxic of poisoned chalices.

And yet despite all that, he’s achieved what he’s achieved. Talk about the players at his disposal all you like. He hasn’t had Robson, Lineker, Gascoigne, Shearer, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Owen, Lampard, Rooney, just off the top of my head.

Would you swap Pickford for Seaman? Luke Shaw for Ashley Cole? Maguire and Stones for Ferdinand and Campbell? You’re almost certainly lying to yourself if you say you wouldn’t.

Yes, we have a talented young crop of players right now, but I’m not convinced it is significantly more so than those squads which have failed before, and often failed dismally.

I get criticism of Southgate when we’re getting smashed by the likes of Hungary and getting relegated in the Nations League, though the double standards on display is at times perplexing. Had we won the Natiobs League, and found ourselves out of the World Cup - like Germany, like Belgium, like Spain - would anyone be using that victory as a defence? Would they f***. It doesn’t matter.

The reluctance to give Southgate credit for anything is just bizarre. So many England managers have failed to get a grip of the egos in the dressing room, and even more so the media. Southgate has nailed it. Only then, can the god-given talent of our squad fulfil its potential.

Do I think we can beat France? Yeah, I think we can. Do I think we will. Yeah, I f***ing do. Will I be right? Who knows. But Southgate has got me excited and interested in a World Cup I vowed not to give a shit about before it started; more or less the exact opposite of every tournament between Euro 96 and Southgate’s maiden World Cup in 2018.

I’ll stop short of “it’s coming home”, that would be some achievement. But, sat here, it feels vaguely possible and I can’t say I have felt that way about a World Cup at any time in my adult life before.

Your first paragraph makes my point , your comparing the old to the new , your second is inaccurate , Allardyce was trapped into answering a question any manager would know , because he gave an answer it was used against him , we all know how to shoot someone but it doesn`t mean we have all shot someone .

Your next suggests 80s players could live with todays team ? i don`t think so , but i would have Ferdinand in place of Maguire . You forget that so far you are comparing old England teams to the current one , your not taking the changes of the other teams into account .

You say Belgium , Germany and Spain are knocked out - WE didn`t knock them out !! , and who gives a f*** if southgate can kiss media arse better than the next man ? .

Can we beat France , dumb question , of course we can , you say GS has got you excited about this WC , honestly he is the reason i havn`t enjoyed it - win or lose .

E.G. southgate moans about lack of central defenders , but leaves Dunk and if fit Webster at home , yet takes two unfit players and Maguire , who is money on to give away a pen at some point .

I dislike GS for his unprofessional approach to squad choice , his total lack of tactical nous , and his reliance on what the players can do for him above what he is capable of doing for them .

 

[Poojah]

Your first paragraph makes my point , your comparing the old to the new , your second is inaccurate , Allardyce was trapped into answering a question any manager would know , because he gave an answer it was used against him , we all know how to shoot someone but it doesn`t mean we have all shot someone .

Your next suggests 80s players could live with todays team ? i don`t think so , but i would have Ferdinand in place of Maguire . You forget that so far you are comparing old England teams to the current one , your not taking the changes of the other teams into account .

You say Belgium , Germany and Spain are knocked out - WE didn`t knock them out !! , and who gives a f*** if southgate can kiss media arse better than the next man ? .

Can we beat France , dumb question , of course we can , you say GS has got you excited about this WC , honestly he is the reason i havn`t enjoyed it - win or lose .

E.G. southgate moans about lack of central defenders , but leaves Dunk and if fit Webster at home , yet takes two unfit players and Maguire , who is money on to give away a pen at some point .

I dislike GS for his unprofessional approach to squad choice , his total lack of tactical nous , and his reliance on what the players can do for him above what he is capable of doing for them .

Unprofessional approach to squad choice. Total lack of tactical nous. Reliance on what players can do for him, above what he is capable of doing for them. Ok.

And yet he’s done better than all of his recent predecessors. I’m not sure what’s wrong with comparing him with what’s gone before. Context is important. And in that context he’s done bloody well.

 

[TugWilson]

Unprofessional approach to squad choice. Total lack of tactical nous. Reliance on what players can do for him, above what he is capable of doing for them. Ok.

And yet he’s done better than all of his recent predecessors. I’m not sure what’s wrong with comparing him with what’s gone before. Context is important. And in that context he’s done bloody well.

Context ok , so our great 1910/11 Community shield winning side against our current squad ?! , in context were they good or are we now better considering we havn`t duplicated their achievement ? .

If you want to compare "what`s gone before" you have to take the state of the opposition into account as well , as you pointed out Germany are out , yet they are 4 time world champions , it`s not just context but also perspective .

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Your first paragraph makes my point , your comparing the old to the new , your second is inaccurate , Allardyce was trapped into answering a question any manager would know , because he gave an answer it was used against him , we all know how to shoot someone but it doesn`t mean we have all shot someone .

Your next suggests 80s players could live with todays team ? i don`t think so , but i would have Ferdinand in place of Maguire . You forget that so far you are comparing old England teams to the current one , your not taking the changes of the other teams into account .

You say Belgium , Germany and Spain are knocked out - WE didn`t knock them out !! , and who gives a f*** if southgate can kiss media arse better than the next man ? .

Can we beat France , dumb question , of course we can , you say GS has got you excited about this WC , honestly he is the reason i havn`t enjoyed it - win or lose .

E.G. southgate moans about lack of central defenders , but leaves Dunk and if fit Webster at home , yet takes two unfit players and Maguire , who is money on to give away a pen at some point .

I dislike GS for his unprofessional approach to squad choice , his total lack of tactical nous , and his reliance on what the players can do for him above what he is capable of doing for them .

I find by reading this, I have come to like Southgate even more.

Funny really.

 

[TugWilson]

I find by reading this, I have come to like Southgate even more.

Funny really.

Good for you - have a banana .......