Can any of our right wing friends defend this article from The Daily Hate

[trueblue]

The NHS is not free; it's paid for by taxes - a lot of them. The genius is that it is broadly free at the point of delivery and therefore universal but it is still inefficient and expensive. Private services (which are of course even more expensive) are much, much better.

Do you mean private medical services? If so, they wouldn't even exist without the NHS - and it'll still be your NHS A&E that saves your life if your private hospital operation goes wrong. Or did you just mean private services in general? Like the banks and other major corporations? Because, yes, they're just so much better aren't they - really do a lot to make the country as a whole a better place to be...

 

[User removed 4]

Semantics aside, I haven't got a clue what you're on about on this. For a seemingly intelligent man you seem totally paralysed by the issues of race, immigration and cultural identity.

And because you don't want to veer the wrong side of the 'racist' label, you spend a lot of time playing daft word games on the subject. It's a difficult line to tread. As you know.

for a seemingly intelligent man you seem to have a lot of trouble working out that i feel that culture and race are two seperate entities, and i am unhappy to say the least about having to live alongside various aspects of immigrant culture, whereas i'm happy to live alongside various races as long as they assimilate into our culture, ie i dont want to live in some vast transit shed of differing "cultures" with no real allegiance to this country, simple enough for you ?

 

[Tooting Gull]

for a seemingly intelligent man you seem to have a lot of trouble working out that i feel that culture and race are two seperate entities, and i am unhappy to say the least about having to live alongside various aspects of immigrant culture, whereas i'm happy to live alongside various races as long as they assimilate into our culture, ie i dont want to live in some vast transit shed of differing "cultures" with no real allegiance to this country, simple enough for you ?

Genuine question. What DO you want, because I'm none the wiser. People of different races are obviously going to hold on to some aspects of their culture. We know what you don't like or are unhappy about. But we are where we are, it ain't going back to the 1950s any time soon. So what now to ensure we all enjoy our lives?

 

[Nibble]

cant you do better than the tired hackneyed " shoot some fuzzy wuzzies in africa " style arguments ? the truth that is unacceptable to people like you is that the empire also did a lot of good , but i digress, i for one would like to see a britain as it was not as it is , i think large scale immigration has been bad for the country, thats white european immigration as well commonwealth and african immigration, however we cant turn the clock back, certainly not on commonwealth immigration, so its best we live with it, one way which would help is to forget all this multi-culturalism bollocks, in terms of social cohesion it simply doesnt work, its entirely reasonable that some people will retain small parts of their culture , but its time we became a multi-racial society, rather than a society where immigrant cultures create mini replicas of the countries they WILLINGLY came here from.

If there is any reason multi-culturism doesn't work is because of attitudes like this. You seem like an itelligent man but why all this nonsense? You should learn to love what Britain has the potential to become. Come on Bushy, embrace it, we're all having a good time over here!

 

[Westdene Wonder]

Whilst the NHS was a massive plus for this country it has unfortunately been run down and the Games was not the place or the time to praise it,the item concerning the Queen was in poor taste and did not give her the respect she deserves, it was a wonder that they did not expect her to include the Morecambe & Wise ending by slapping Bond on his cheeks and doing the little dance off stage.

 

[kevo]

It looks like the Mail have now taken the article down.

 

[User removed 4]

Genuine question. What DO you want, because I'm none the wiser. People of different races are obviously going to hold on to some aspects of their culture. We know what you don't like or are unhappy about. But we are where we are, it ain't going back to the 1950s any time soon. So what now to ensure we all enjoy our lives?

I want immigrants both old and new to adopt our culture , for immigrants to be forced to learn our language for reasons of practicality, there are a whole range of measures that can be tried, what I do know is that a healthy debate is required, instead of the usual stereotypes of drunken young brits in town centres being trotted out as a reason for immigrants to avoid integration , i feel that this country is in danger of becoming ever more polarised between races and religions, some people may not agree , only time will tel but i feel we are storing up a time bomb, lots of people in this country dont or didnt agree with the wars in iraq or afghanistan, but do you think many of them would have exhibited the same reaction as the asian in this story ?
G4S guard faces sack after he spits at Afghanistan hero and brands him a baby killer | The Sun |Sport|Olympics
Lets not get into a debate about the description of him as a hero or whatever, the point i'm trying to make is that he obviously feels a great deal more in common with fellow muslims than he does for a soldier of what is supposedly his own country, that and attitudes like it , are a problem that needs to be addressed .

 

[Tooting Gull]

I want immigrants both old and new to adopt our culture , for immigrants to be forced to learn our language for reasons of practicality, there are a whole range of measures that can be tried, what I do know is that a healthy debate is required, instead of the usual stereotypes of drunken young brits in town centres being trotted out as a reason for immigrants to avoid integration , i feel that this country is in danger of becoming ever more polarised between races and religions, some people may not agree , only time will tel but i feel we are storing up a time bomb, lots of people in this country dont or didnt agree with the wars in iraq or afghanistan, but do you think many of them would have exhibited the same reaction as the asian in this story ?
G4S guard faces sack after he spits at Afghanistan hero and brands him a baby killer | The Sun |Sport|Olympics
Lets not get into a debate about the description of him as a hero or whatever, the point i'm trying to make is that he obviously feels a great deal more in common with fellow muslims than he does for a soldier of what is supposedly his own country, that and attitudes like it , are a problem that needs to be addressed .

While I don't share many of your views I agree about the language, it's just basic courtesy and also pure self-interest to learn the language in another country, to cope with 'life's admin' etc if nothing else.

As far as the wars go, there are plenty of what you would call British people who had grave reservations about the rationale, the motives, and the consistency for getting involved, although that's more an argument with the governemtn than the military.

And you haven't listed anything YOU need to do to calm this impending cataclysmic meltdown in race/religious relations. Don't you think if attitudes were less like yours, the outlook might be better for everyone? You're being suckered hook line and sinker by stories like that one in The Sun into an impression of society.

Meanwhile out there there are plenty of people who live next door to each other, work together, have kids that play together, contribute to the community together..not exactly tabloid fodder for stories, but real life in a multi-racial society.

 

[User removed 4]

While I don't share many of your views I agree about the language, it's just basic courtesy and also pure self-interest to learn the language in another country, to cope with 'life's admin' etc if nothing else.

As far as the wars go, there are plenty of what you would call British people who had grave reservations about the rationale, the motives, and the consistency for getting involved, although that's more an argument with the governemtn than the military.

And you haven't listed anything YOU need to do to calm this impending cataclysmic meltdown in race/religious relations. Don't you think if attitudes were less like yours, the outlook might be better for everyone? You're being suckered hook line and sinker by stories like that one in The Sun into an impression of society.Meanwhile out there there are plenty of people who live next door to each other, work together, have kids that play together, contribute to the community together..not exactly tabloid fodder for stories, but real life in a multi-racial society.

No , i dont feel I need to do anything at all, nobody ever asked me , or my parents or grandparents if we wanted this wonderful multicultural paradise foisted upon us , as for this statement " Meanwhile out there there are plenty of people who live next door to each other, work together, have kids that play together, contribute to the community together
" I'm sorry, but if you think this is indicative of community relations as in gebneral, I vehemently disagree, these communities you talk about do exist , but they lead very separate lives a lot of the time , as well as the communities that are totally separate and have little or no interaction other than friction.

 

[Nibble]

Bushy, what do you think the cause of the friction is in these areas where it is prevalent?

 

[Silk]

This is all part of the anti public services propaganda campaign whipped up by the right-wing press. The free-market powers that be want to privatise everything, but they face a significant obstacle in British public opinion, which they have been trying to turn their way since the days of Thatcher. sadly it seems to be working.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

the daily mail really is an awful newspaper..........absolutely awful

they have far, far too many opinion/comment articles which do nothing apart from attempt to shock/generate (bad) publicity to the paper and get online hits

 

[User removed 4]

Bushy, what do you think the cause of the friction is in these areas where it is prevalent?

A bias real or percieved in provision of Housing, and other social services, language problems holding back english kids in schools, a feeling of being swamped , and an area being totally transformed in a relatively short space of time, and like it or not , the celebrated, oft mocked nappy throwing story is true, so, you get my drift ?

 

[Nibble]

A bias real or percieved in provision of Housing, and other social services, language problems holding back english kids in schools, a feeling of being swamped , and an area being totally transformed in a relatively short space of time, and like it or not , the celebrated, oft mocked nappy throwing story is true, so, you get my drift ?

Quite similar to previously low cost areas where the white middle classes have moved in and raised local prices, housing costs etc.

I would imagine the areas you speak of have always had social problems.

 

[Nibble]

Don't get me wrong Bushy, I think it would be ignorant of anyone to think that immigrants moving in to certain areas is not going to cause friction. My opinion is that these areas are prone to social problems from the start, due to poverty, lack of opportunity etc, you throw a group of people that many believe are stealing jobs, benefits etc and of course there are going to be issues. But in slightly better off areas there seems to be less of a problem. This is why there are problems caused by native British and also caused by immigrants. It's the genuine cause of the problems I'd like to get to the bottom of.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

If there is any reason multi-culturism doesn't work is because of attitudes like this. You seem like an itelligent man but why all this nonsense? You should learn to love what Britain has the potential to become. Come on Bushy, embrace it, we're all having a good time over here!

the potential for what ? all i see is ghettos , mainly white people moving away from inner city housing, why's that ? I'LL TELL YOU WHY IT'S BECAUSE THEIR LOOKING FOR A BETTER STANDARD OF LIFE , they've had enough off the crap going on around them, it's not rocket science.

 

[Nibble]

the potential for what ? all i see is ghettos , mainly white people moving away from inner city housing, why's that ? I'LL TELL YOU WHY IT'S BECAUSE THEIR LOOKING FOR A BETTER STANDARD OF LIFE , they've had enough off the crap going on around them, it's not rocket science.

Much like our immigrant friends then.

 

[User removed 4]

Don't get me wrong Bushy, I think it would be ignorant of anyone to think that immigrants moving in to certain areas is not going to cause friction. My opinion is that these areas are prone to social problems from the start, due to poverty, lack of opportunity etc, you throw a group of people that many believe are stealing jobs, benefits etc and of course there are going to be issues. But in slightly better off areas there seems to be less of a problem. This is why there are problems caused by native British and also caused by immigrants. It's the genuine cause of the problems I'd like to get to the bottom of.

But they are genuine problems, people see immigrants/asylum seekers in social housing when they themselves or their kids have been on the list for years , try seeing where you grew up transformed into a replica of lahore or karachi in the space of 25 years , try going on the millwall board where they live with the results of large scale african immigration every day and start telling them how " we're all having a great time over here " especially when you mention you live in the diverse melting pot of , er sussex, you really dont know your born nibble.

 

[Nibble]

But they are genuine problems, people see immigrants/asylum seekers in social housing when they themselves or their kids have been on the list for years , try seeing where you grew up transformed into a replica of lahore or karachi in the space of 25 years , try going on the millwall board where they live with the results of large scale african immigration every day and start telling them how " we're all having a great time over here " especially when you mention you live in the diverse melting pot of , er sussex, you really dont know your born nibble.

I'm not gonna apologise for my circumstances but the FACT is there are some areas it works and some it doesn't. I would imagine the the areas it doesn't work in already have existing problems.

 

[User removed 4]

I'm not gonna apologise for my circumstances but the FACT is there are some areas it works and some it doesn't. I would imagine the the areas it doesn't work in already have existing problems.

Nor should you, but they also preclude you from commenting with any degree of empathy .