[Politics] Cambridge Analytica were involved in a pro Brexit campaign

[Stat Brother]

But if it isn't just a straight 'side with the most votes wins' then some people's votes end up being worth more than others. Hardly very fair regardless of what is being voted on.

Yeah I know you're right, it's such a shame it was so close as to be really unpalatable now, as it would be the other way round.

Obviously Big Dave should never have allowed himself to get backed into the corner, in the first place.
To then be so spineless after the event, through the campaign, was just pathetic.

All of this because of a Tory party power struggle, bloody stupid.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

that should read 'cannot fathom 52% of the country want Brexit'...

Fair correction.

On the wantED point ...

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/936184/brexit-news-remain-eu-theresa-may-poll

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Fair correction.

On the wantED point ...

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/936184/brexit-news-remain-eu-theresa-may-poll

We all know how accurate opinion polls are.

 

[Bold Seagull]

We all know how accurate opinion polls are.

We all know how accurate the Daily Express is.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

We all know how accurate opinion polls are.

They can be wrong .. are still likely to be more accurate than wishful thinking though.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Both sides cheated by overspending and one (possibly both) likely used some form of insidious and underhand campaigning methods ultimately financed by people with otherwise vested interests.

The whole thing was a clearly a farce and the only sensible thing now would be to annul the result.

It could well be the Crooked Referendum, but they will stick their fingers in their ears and sing la-la-la rather than actually do anything about it. [emoji38]ol:

 

[drew]

Oh yes.

It's so bizarre that such a decision has been allowed to be made by 1.3m people, of those that voted.
The fact that there wasn't a minimum number required to change the entire political future of the country, says all you need to know about the remain campaign.

Cameron's fault.

He was always under pressure from the moment he failed to win a majority against a weak and disliked opponent like Gordon Brown who was also stuck with the stigma of the 2008 financial crash. That failure meant he had to promise something in 2015.

He also catastrophically handled the referendum. Should have been a requirement to get a majority of the electorate to come out rather than a simple majority of the turnout. He should also have given the vote to the 16 year olds but he was scared this would set a precedent for general elections and the idea of liberal thinking youngsters not voting for him.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think even if Cambridge Analytica were involved in the Brexit Referendum their influence would have been peripheral at best, as opposed to the US Presidential Election where they were responsible for getting Trump elected.

I wish politicians of both sides could be more grown up about Brexit. The Referendum should have been determined by economic facts and practicalities, but Leave was dominated by fantasy while Remain was complacently shaped by trying to play on people's fears. This is not an issue that should be decided by a mere 3% of the electorate because not to vote on the deal we get will divide the country for a generation.

 

[nicko31]

Interesting key members of the leave side have completely gone to ground since these revelations, no one of significance has appeared on camera on mic

You'd think they'd want to defend their position.

Until I hear different it looks increasingly the case that a vote that will change our country forever has been compromised.

 

[Buzzer]

Are Davis, May, the negotiating team, etc also engaging in stalling tactics? They haven't exactly got very far in the 21 months since the vote (let's be fair to them, and say the 18 months since they've been in position); is this the fault of: Remainers; them; the multiple Leave camps for being all things to all (wo)men?

I don't think Davis is stalling. I think it's more a question of competence. I'm not blaming Remainers for any problems the negotiators are having but there has been plenty of attempts at stalling and disrupting our exit from some in the Remain camp. The incessant nonsense about having a second referendum is a blatant example.

 

[nicko31]

I don't think Davis is stalling. I think it's more a question of competence. I'm not blaming Remainers for any problems the negotiators are having but there has been plenty of attempts at stalling and disrupting our exit from some in the Remain camp. The incessant nonsense about having a second referendum is a blatant example.

Think from most the talk is more of a ratification of Brexit rather than a IN / OUT 2nd referendum. Though the latter can't be ruled out, massive challenges ahead, some key votes in commons and odds are now only 4-1 of this happening before next April.

 

[Buzzer]

Think from most the talk is more of a ratification of Brexit rather than a IN / OUT 2nd referendum. Though the latter can't be ruled out, massive challenges ahead, some key votes in commons and odds are now only 4-1 of this happening before next April.

I agree completely with you on most of the talk being about ratification and I'm not accusing all Remainers of trying to disrupt our exit but there are some out there like Owen Smith who are pushing for a re-run of the entire thing.

 

[Machiavelli]

I don't think Davis is stalling. I think it's more a question of competence. I'm not blaming Remainers for any problems the negotiators are having but there has been plenty of attempts at stalling and disrupting our exit from some in the Remain camp. The incessant nonsense about having a second referendum is a blatant example.

I think Davis is competent, and I actually quite admire him (I don't often say that about Tories; don't get me started on Fox or Johnson, for instance), the issue with him isn't about incompetence, but unrealistic expectations. Go back to all the tosh he said (Fox was far, far worse) during the referendum campaign, and soon afterwards, and you'll find that he's had to concede on several points. As regards the Remain camp, there are multiple positions and voices within it (a bit like the Leave side), and these are and will continue to shift.
And just to get things clear, we've had a second referendum, the result of which was extremely close, and there are revelations emerging that the winning side engaged in illegalities. The first referendum gave a resoundingly clear result. I'm shifting towards the position of getting behind a third referendum, and will firm up this view if the Electoral Commission declare that between them the Leave campaign broke electoral/referenda law.

 

[Buzzer]

I think Davis is competent, and I actually quite admire him (I don't often say that about Tories; don't get me started on Fox or Johnson, for instance), the issue with him isn't about incompetence, but unrealistic expectations.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that.

[tweet]977796481653633024[/tweet]

 

[nicko31]

I think Davis is competent, and I actually quite admire him (I don't often say that about Tories; don't get me started on Fox or Johnson, for instance), the issue with him isn't about incompetence, but unrealistic expectations. Go back to all the tosh he said (Fox was far, far worse) during the referendum campaign, and soon afterwards, and you'll find that he's had to concede on several points. As regards the Remain camp, there are multiple positions and voices within it (a bit like the Leave side), and these are and will continue to shift.
And just to get things clear, we've had a second referendum, the result of which was extremely close, and there are revelations emerging that the winning side engaged in illegalities. The first referendum gave a resoundingly clear result. I'm shifting towards the position of getting behind a third referendum, and will firm up this view if the Electoral Commission declare that between them the Leave campaign broke electoral/referenda law.

What was the 2nd referendum, I've lost you there??

 

[Machiavelli]

What was the 2nd referendum, I've lost you there??

Not to worry, [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] has lost me a bit with his response too. It's perhaps contagious on this thread, perhaps determined by the complexity of the issues surrounding Cam Anal.
First referendum took us into the EEC(?) and was held in 1973/4/5, result was two to one in favour. Second referendum was held in 2016 and takes us out of the EU, and was extremely close, 48.1:51.9.

 

[the right footed denilson]

Wylie is saying some incredibly damning things this morning...

Dominic Cummings himself said the internet campaign was what made all the difference, he says.

He says the “conversion rates” for the campaign’s online advertising were “incredibly effective”.

He says it is perfectly credible to say that, without cheating, there would have been a different result.

Wylie says he is convinced that Vote Leave, BeLeave, the DUP and Veterans for Britain were working together in the EU referendum campaign.

He says he can’t believe there would have been any other way they would all have found AggregateIQ. At that time you could not even find it on the internet.

He says he recalls someone telling him what was happening was “totally illegal”.

He says BeLeave was used as effectively a money laundering vehicle. He says this happened because Dominic Cummings [who was running Vote Leave] was determined to win.

 

[Buzzer]

Not to worry, [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] has lost me a bit with his response too. It's perhaps contagious on this thread, perhaps determined by the complexity of the issues surrounding Cam Anal.
First referendum took us into the EEC(?) and was held in 1973/4/5, result was two to one in favour. Second referendum was held in 2016 and takes us out of the EU, and was extremely close, 48.1:51.9.

I don't think someone who clearly lacks the ability to argue his case effectively and instead just threatens to resign every time is the right man for the job.

I'm sure he's got lots of other skills but he's not a competent negotiator at the level that this needs.

 

[Machiavelli]

Christopher Wylie is currently giving testimony to the Parliamentary Select Committee. Compelling viewing.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Wylie is saying some incredibly damning things this morning...

Vote Leave and BeLeave shared an office, shared the services of the same group of volunteers, and (unsubstantiated this bit) even held their information on the same shared server.

There was no collusion though. No, sirree...