[Politics] By-election in Honiton and Tiverton.

[Thunder Bolt]

Suella Braverman(Attorney General) - "It's disappointing to see that there's actually a dishonest electoral pact between the LibDems & Labour, & that's more worrying"

As both parties fielded a candidate in each by-election, how the heck does she think it was dishonest?
It’s not even like Farage withdrawing his Brexit party candidates in 2019, or May bribing the DUP in March 2017.

The problem is there is so much dishonesty and corruption in government, they’re judging others by their own standards.

 

[A1X]

Suella Braverman(Attorney General) - "It's disappointing to see that there's actually a dishonest electoral pact between the LibDems & Labour, & that's more worrying"

As both parties fielded a candidate in each by-election, how the heck does she think it was dishonest?
It’s not even like Farage withdrawing his Brexit party candidates in 2019, or May bribing the DUP in March 2017.

The problem is there is so much dishonesty and corruption in government, they’re judging others by their own standards.

Good on Braverman for calling this out, without this intervention I would have had no idea this was going on in these by-elections.

BTW just back from being on Mars, lovely but a bit chilly.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Some interesting points raised I think. However;

* the recent spankings mentioned might only serve to highlight how poor the Tories are. My point stands there - if the media convince the electorate that Johnson's removal was all that needed to happen, we might still struggle to see them removed in 2024. I think the nation will need convincing that the opposition are both charismatic and trustworthy to avoid that happening, otherwise we will continue to be led by these chancers backed by the sufficient numbers of selfish and moronic that are clearly there.

It's not just this government, it's the past 3 Conservative governments. 12 years is a long time to tolerate a party who put the interests of themselves and their friends above the bulk of the UK public.

 

[nicko31]

Suella Braverman(Attorney General) - "It's disappointing to see that there's actually a dishonest electoral pact between the LibDems & Labour, & that's more worrying"

As both parties fielded a candidate in each by-election, how the heck does she think it was dishonest?
It’s not even like Farage withdrawing his Brexit party candidates in 2019, or May bribing the DUP in March 2017.

The problem is there is so much dishonesty and corruption in government, they’re judging others by their own standards.

With the government now charge in the Electoral Commission it should be made a criminal offence to vote tactically.

Anyone caught should have their citizenship removed and deported to Kigali on the next available flight

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

With the government now charge in the Electoral Commission it should be made a criminal offence to vote tactically.

Anyone caught should have their citizenship removed and deported to Kigali on the next available flight

It could never be proved in court that someone voted tactically. The defence "I voted for the candidate I wanted" would always hold up.

 

[rogersix]

So I’m assuming if the Conservative candidate wins, even by the smallest of margins, most folk on here will be somewhat agitated?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

i get slightly agitated whilst wondering "how can anyone vote for this shower?"

there are some astoundingly gullible people voting for some incredibly cynical people,

what a shame, life could be really pleasant

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

i get slightly agitated whilst wondering "how can anyone vote for this shower?"

there are some astoundingly gullible people voting for some incredibly cynical people,

what a shame, life could be really pleasant

I am more just repeatedly facepalming that the "non Cult acolyte" Tories are too weak and spineless to get rid of Johnson.

However, the silver lining is that every day that passes is a day closer to Johnson being booted out at the next election if the Tories don't Get Rid of him first.

 

[Baldseagull]

i get slightly agitated whilst wondering "how can anyone vote for this shower?"

there are some astoundingly gullible people voting for some incredibly cynical people,

what a shame, life could be really pleasant

I wonder if those who went out and voted Tory yesterday, see Russian people in support of Putin, and wonder how they can be so brainwashed?

 

[jcdenton08]

I wonder if those who went out and voted Tory yesterday, see Russian people in support of Putin, and wonder how they can be so brainwashed?

Either that, or they vote Tory because they believe in Conservative ideals and policy, whether we agree with them or not, on issues that are relevant and important to them.

There is also a chance they voted for their candidate on a local level, believing them to be a good constituency MP.

I won't be voting Conservative with this dreadful government in charge personally, regardless of the strength of the local candidate, but conservativism is just that for many people.

For decades now I've seen this opposition view amongst the most vocal supporters that "we are right, and everyone who disagrees is an idiot". This does not win hearts and minds, and actually alienates huge amounts of potential swing voters. I am astonished that people can't see that for themselves.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I wonder if those who went out and voted Tory yesterday, see Russian people in support of Putin, and wonder how they can be so brainwashed?

At least Russians in most cases know no difference, as dissenting voices are not allowed. In this country, despite the main papers supporting the Tories, other views are still available.

 

[Baldseagull]

Either that, or they vote Tory because they believe in Conservative ideals and policy, whether we agree with them or not, on issues that are relevant and important to them.

There is also a chance they voted for their candidate on a local level, believing them to be a good constituency MP.

I won't be voting Conservative with this dreadful government in charge personally, regardless of the strength of the local candidate, but conservativism is just that for many people.

For decades now I've seen this opposition view amongst the most vocal supporters that "we are right, and everyone who disagrees is an idiot". This does not win hearts and minds, and actually alienates huge amounts of potential swing voters. I am astonished that people can't see that for themselves.

There only appears to be a policy of keeping Johnson in the role of PM, Conservative ideals are not very apparent (the party of law and order, low tax, strong economy?), no evidence of Building Back Better, levelling up or even getting brexit done in reality, just keeping brexit in the news and blaming the EU for it not being as easy as they said it would be. I don't see any benefit to the country, the Conservative Party or conservative ideals in any way, by clinging on to Boris Johnson.
I also see that telling others they are wrong and foolish is counterproductive to changing minds, but honestly, anyone that still thinks Johnson is suitable, or even the best of a bad bunch, to be our PM at this point, is never going to be swayed by gentle persuasion either.

 

[jcdenton08]

There only appears to be a policy of keeping Johnson in the role of PM, Conservative ideals are not very apparent (the party of law and order, low tax, strong economy?), no evidence of Building Back Better, levelling up or even getting brexit done in reality, just keeping brexit in the news and blaming the EU for it not being as easy as they said it would be. I don't see any benefit to the country, the Conservative Party or conservative ideals in any way, by clinging on to Boris Johnson.
I also see that telling others they are wrong and foolish is counterproductive to changing minds, but honestly, anyone that still thinks Johnson is suitable, or even the best of a bad bunch, to be our PM at this point, is never going to be swayed by gentle persuasion either.

Absolutely. Boris Johnson and his government are absolutely dire and he should've been ousted long, long ago.

 

[beorhthelm]

There only appears to be a policy of keeping Johnson in the role of PM, Conservative ideals are not very apparent (the party of law and order, low tax, strong economy?), no evidence of Building Back Better, levelling up or even getting brexit done in reality, just keeping brexit in the news and blaming the EU for it not being as easy as they said it would be. I don't see any benefit to the country, the Conservative Party or conservative ideals in any way, by clinging on to Boris Johnson.
I also see that telling others they are wrong and foolish is counterproductive to changing minds, but honestly, anyone that still thinks Johnson is suitable, or even the best of a bad bunch, to be our PM at this point, is never going to be swayed by gentle persuasion either.

you dont get anywhere insulting people, they get defensive and dont listen. focus on the objection, why Johnson is unsuitable, show he hasnt done anything and you'll get further. or just leave them to it. they took a view years ago based on nothing but hope and goodwill, not some Johnson ideology as he hasnt got one to sell.

 

[Baldseagull]

you dont get anywhere insulting people, they get defensive and dont listen. focus on the objection, why Johnson is unsuitable, show he hasnt done anything and you'll get further.

I know, I do try, I do fail as well though.

 

[jcdenton08]

you dont get anywhere insulting people, they get defensive and dont listen. focus on the objection, why Johnson is unsuitable, show he hasnt done anything and you'll get further. or just leave them to it. they took a view years ago based on nothing but hope and goodwill, not some Johnson ideology as he hasnt got one to sell.

The main mistake people make is simply writing off other's views by going immediately to the lowest common denominator/stereotype which 99% of the time isn't true.

Given that the Tories are in power, the opposition view is usually "anyone who votes Tory is a probable racist bigot who wants Boris Johnson as PM". Being told that, when they know it isn't true, doesn't exactly flick a switch and make them go "oh, I must vote Labour now, because some guy on a forum says I'm a bigot if I don't".

They shut down, double down on their view, because you've basically attacked them and their values because they don't align with yours.

A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. A kick in the balls leaves you resentful.

 

[The Clamp]

While it’s a most welcome result, it’s not the Tory’s we have to defeat. It’s Johnson. That’s not going to be easy.

 

[clapham_gull]

Given that the Tories are in power, the opposition view is usually "anyone who votes Tory is a probable racist bigot who wants Boris Johnson as PM".

Not quite, but at the moment (if they do) they are clearly happy to keep one there.

Sensible Conservatives realise he is damaging for the party. They also understand he has allowed the party to become hijacked internally by a neo-liberal English nationalist fringe.

It certainly isn't the party those supporters have voted for, for years, but it may of course be the one some also wanted. For certain this new incarnation has destroyed the far-right vote by mopping up support.

It's a party that trashes the establishment, mistrusts the legal system and picks fights with the Church of England and Royal Family. A party whose leader put his cenotaph wreath on expenses....

But as they say, "they knew what they were voting for."