[Music] British v American Punk

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have not (and in true punk spirit am not going to) read the rest of this thread, but just wanted to put on record that the Clash sound nothing like a punk band should sound, and that the Minutemen were the glorious pinnacle of American Punk.

'Should'?

The first accessible punk was New Rose, released late 76. Then White Riot and other stuff. I bought pretty much every punk single for a year.

Looking back, it is hard to distinguish what makes them 'punk' now. The first Clash and Damned LPs ticked a certain box and are, in my view, originals. By contrast NMTB, enjoyable as it is thanks to Steve Jones, sounds like straightforward rock to my ears these days. The Banshees were probably the most unique and distinctive of the bands, especially when John and Kenny were in the line up. The guitar sound was so brilliant and original that John McGeoch pretty much pinched it when he became the Banshees' guitarist. But they are very much a thing of their own that transcended punk.

I would now class 'classical' punk, which means things like: outside view (Eater) emergency (999), right to work (Chelsea), incendiary device (Johnny Moped) development corporation (The Now) etc as the one aspect of punk that does not fare well over the years.

 

[BN9 BHA]

the kids singing for example

I absolutely love the Timon Dogg tracks. There was some comment yesterday, may have been on this thread, about how Strummer stitched up the 101ers by leaving for Rhodes' siren call. Dogg was part of the 101ers set up, so the falling out can't have been a big deal.

Yes, kid singing Career Opportunities is slightly odd, also not a fan of Rebel Waltz.

 

[BN9 BHA]

He did you a favour there.
I never used earplugs and, after several hundred gigs between 78-90 my ears are properly f**ked.

I have very bad tinnitus in one ear, combination of going to see bands in my teens and working with power tools for many years and not using ear defenders.

 

[BN9 BHA]

I have not (and in true punk spirit am not going to) read the rest of this thread, but just wanted to put on record that the Clash sound nothing like a punk band should sound, and that the Minutemen were the glorious pinnacle of American Punk.

Just looked up Minutemen on YouTube and I think I will stick with The Clash
Maybe this isn’t one of their best but the other 2 I played didn’t impress.

 

[chickens]

Just looked up Minutemen on YouTube and I think I will stick with The Clash
Maybe this isn’t one of their best but the other 2 I played didn’t impress.

Well, watching that filled me with joy, it’s ages since I’ve listened to Buzz and Howl under the influence of heat.

If that leaves you cold, then by all means stick with The Clash, who to me sound like late UB40.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

'Should'?

The first accessible punk was New Rose, released late 76. Then White Riot and other stuff. I bought pretty much every punk single for a year.

Looking back, it is hard to distinguish what makes them 'punk' now. The first Clash and Damned LPs ticked a certain box and are, in my view, originals. By contrast NMTB, enjoyable as it is thanks to Steve Jones, sounds like straightforward rock to my ears these days. The Banshees were probably the most unique and distinctive of the bands, especially when John and Kenny were in the line up. The guitar sound was so brilliant and original that John McGeoch pretty much pinched it when he became the Banshees' guitarist. But they are very much a thing of their own that transcended punk.

I would now class 'classical' punk, which means things like: outside view (Eater) emergency (999), right to work (Chelsea), incendiary device (Johnny Moped) development corporation (The Now) etc as the one aspect of punk that does not fare well over the years.

Is not caring whether a "punk" band sounds like a punk band, in itself, an example of the punk ethos?

No. Probably not.

 

[BN9 BHA]

If that leaves you cold, then by all means stick with The Clash, who to me sound like late UB40.

Have you actually listened to the first album by The Clash?

 

[chickens]

Have you actually listened to the first album by The Clash?

I’ve just checked and I hadn’t, but on first listen, while closer to what I’d describe as a punk sound, it still retains a certain sheen that I find distinctly un-punk. It somehow sounds “glossy” to me. The fault may be more with the production team than the artist (as what I’m listening to proudly states it’s been remastered) but it still feels to me as if the band are trying to be punk, rather than it being a natural fit.

I’d agree that it’s much closer to what I’d describe as punk than London Calling though, which to my mind is not a punk record by any metric.

(dons tin hat and waits for the rain of Molotov cocktails to die down)

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I’ve just checked and I hadn’t, but on first listen, while closer to what I’d describe as a punk sound, it still retains a certain sheen that I find distinctly un-punk. It somehow sounds “glossy” to me. The fault may be more with the production team than the artist (as what I’m listening to proudly states it’s been remastered) but it still feels to me as if the band are trying to be punk, rather than it being a natural fit.

I’d agree that it’s much closer to what I’d describe as punk than London Calling though, which to my mind is not a punk record by any metric.

(dons tin hat and waits for the rain of Molotov cocktails to die down)

Not listening to music before commenting on it is also very in keeping with the punk ethos.

 

[Trevor]

Love both

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is not caring whether a "punk" band sounds like a punk band, in itself, an example of the punk ethos?

No. Probably not.

I was thinking about this earlier. I think the ethos has had an important impact on my thinking throughout my life. Things like not worshiping heroes (or following fashion), not conflating a position/statement with the person having/making it, not trusting hippies LOL and not using 'popularity' as a measure of quality or virtue are still part of my phenotype. More recently I realized that these and other aspect of my thinking are probably more a reflection of my autism, with all its inherent advantages and disadvantages, and the overlap with the punk ethos is probably coincidental and a tad contrived, if not positively hoity toity.

 

[BN9 BHA]

I’ve just checked and I hadn’t, but on first listen, while closer to what I’d describe as a punk sound, it still retains a certain sheen that I find distinctly un-punk. It somehow sounds “glossy” to me. The fault may be more with the production team than the artist (as what I’m listening to proudly states it’s been remastered) but it still feels to me as if the band are trying to be punk, rather than it being a natural fit.

I’d agree that it’s much closer to what I’d describe as punk than London Calling though, which to my mind is not a punk record by any metric.

(dons tin hat and waits for the rain of Molotov cocktails to die down)

Nothing like UB40 then

 

[WATFORD zero]

I’ve just checked and I hadn’t, but on first listen, while closer to what I’d describe as a punk sound, it still retains a certain sheen that I find distinctly un-punk. It somehow sounds “glossy” to me. The fault may be more with the production team than the artist (as what I’m listening to proudly states it’s been remastered) but it still feels to me as if the band are trying to be punk, rather than it being a natural fit.

I’d agree that it’s much closer to what I’d describe as punk than London Calling though, which to my mind is not a punk record by any metric.

(dons tin hat and waits for the rain of Molotov cocktails to die down)

I thought London Calling was a great pop song, I love it. But I've always liked young, angsty musicians who write good songs, regardless of genre.

Youngsters making a complete row because they're angsty, not so much

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

I’ve just checked and I hadn’t, but on first listen, while closer to what I’d describe as a punk sound, it still retains a certain sheen that I find distinctly un-punk. It somehow sounds “glossy” to me. The fault may be more with the production team than the artist (as what I’m listening to proudly states it’s been remastered) but it still feels to me as if the band are trying to be punk, rather than it being a natural fit.

I’d agree that it’s much closer to what I’d describe as punk than London Calling though, which to my mind is not a punk record by any metric.

(dons tin hat and waits for the rain of Molotov cocktails to die down)

Their second album was indeed over-produced (although it still contained some belters, particularly when played live) and was panned by the critics at the time. By the time they recorded the London Calling album, their all round writing and musicianship had ‘matured’ to a different level.

The first album obviously had to be ‘produced’ but it’s a lot closer to their live sound (without it actually being a live album) and is, for me, one of the truly great punk albums ever recorded.

 

[chickens]

Nothing like UB40 then

I will accept that the first Clash record does not sound like UB40. It’s more like the Buzzcocks crossed with Slade.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Their second album was indeed over-produced (although it still contained some belters, particularly when played live) and was panned by the critics at the time. By the time they recorded the London Calling album, their all round writing and musicianship had ‘matured’ to a different level.

Safe European Home and Stay Free are 2 of my favourite songs by them.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

Safe European Home and Stay Free are 2 of my favourite songs by them.

Absolutely. The intro to SEH is them at their 100 mile an hour best.

 

[jakarta]

Prefered New Wave to be honest e.g. XTC, Joy Division, Television, Talking Heads etc..

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No one has mentioned Stiff Little Fingers yet.

 

[Weststander]

I get that.

My guess is that you may be a few years older than me and were involved at the beginning of Punk.
I was 8 at the time and during my teens, i was more interested in the bands inspired by punk, than punk itself.

The clash's output didn't feel like selling out to me, as I wasn't really there at the beginning.
But New Order's evolution into a dance music, felt like the greatest betrayal of Ian Curtis's legacy.
Took me a long time to come around.

I love the evolution of JD/NO, the band of my youth. Post punk JD, followed by early 80’s NO with a more synth based sound and Gillian, then the NO you despise. To me brave, mostly magical. My favourite NO album is Movement, no one ever selects that!