[Music] British v American Punk

[Seagull58]

I think bands like the pistols and the Clash were frauds and nothing more than manufactured bands. Obviously the were influential but only in terms of style. I think a lot of the bands that codified the politics were undoubtedly American.

The Clash were anything but a manufactured band. Yes, the Pistols were marketed well by McLaren but they were still the first real punk band imo. American punk doesn't compare at all to The Damned, Clash, Pistols, Buzzcocks, Ruts, X-Ray Spex etc.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The Clash were as far from a manufactured band as it is possible to be. They were authentic, and refused to toe the line - they did exactly what they wanted to do, much to the annoyance of those who would wish to make money from them.

Their first album was pretty much straightforward 'punk' (with a few hints at the varied directions they would soon move in), but after that they annoyed many of their fans with their changes of direction.

They went on to become one of the most interesting bands that there has ever been, and their legacy still holds firm to this day.

A truly great band.

Agreed.
I was furious at Sandinista! when it came out.
But is now my favourite Clash album.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Agreed.
I was furious at Sandinista! when it came out.
But is now my favourite Clash album.

Took me a while to like it, I still skip some tracks though.

 

[Seagull58]

Which part? The pistols and the Clash were both manufactured. That's not opinion it's fact. They were selling an image, they were essentially pop stars who happened to annoy some people

This is total nonsense wrt the Clash.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Took me a while to like it, I still skip some tracks though.

I know what you mean.
Side 6 rarely got played back in the day, but i let it play all the way through on Spotify now.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

Another vote for British although cap doffed to The Ramones, who significantly influenced a number of UK bands including The Undertones (best gig I’ve ever been to!).

Punk’s ‘explosion’ in 1977 -(yeah, I know it started the year before)- had a profound effect on me in that IT (the music, clothes, Do It Yourself mantra, etc) became (Albion aside) everything I was interested in, to the extent that studying at school became non-existent. I’d eagerly be first in the queue at the newsagents every Thursday (?) to buy that week’s NME which I’d then take to school and go through with Steve Johnson who, although the same age, was allowed to go to gigs in London, whereas my church going parents wouldn’t dream of letting me go, least of all funding it. I therefore had to make do with buying the records and listening to Steve’s experiences of whichever gig he’d been to the previous night. He was the first kid who came to school with dyed green hair! I tried to emulate him using mum’s green food dye but went out in the rain and it trickled pathetically down my face!

As far as I know, Steve was the only kid at our school who got twatted for saying he hated 4 eyed, ginger haired mods (by, funnily enough, a 4 eyed, ginger haired mod!).

For me, The Clash were the best band to come out of it in that they (mostly successfully) covered many different genres and also became an important influence for bands that followed. There was clearly a battle going on behind the scenes between Malcom Maclaren and Bernie Rhodes as to which of their protégés were first, best, etc and both were highly pissed off that New Rose beat them to it as the first ‘punk’ single.

I’d recommend Jon Savage’s excellent England’s Dreaming as a great guide and first hand account as to understanding how the whole scene, with its roots in the US, came about.

 

[Seagull58]

I remember my old man got me interested in punk in late70s listening to John peel from 10 till midnight most nights. Got into some amazing groups back then and subsequently saved up and got a massive passion for going to virgin records on queen's Road to buy my single and album vinyls. Ramones Road to ruin album yellow vinyl was one of my treasures along with 100s more.

My dad took me to see the jam in 78 at the dome(ear plugs most definitely in) blimey I was only 9. That really opened my eyes to my music passion up till this current day.Happy days.

I first heard Attila on John Peel, 77 or 78.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hawkwind & Pink Fairies, from about 1971, especially when they merged for chemical reasons to be Pinkwind...

Funnily enough, I saw both of them in the early 70's as a result of my older sister taking me. I must have done my 'punk' thing back then, because by 1976/77 I was listening to the Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Stanley Clarke, Chick Corea etc (always out of step with fashion ).

I always had a soft spot for Pub Rock with the Feelgoods, Kilburn and the highroads, Nick Lowe etc so when punk finished and Ian Drury, Elvis Costello, Police etc and Ska came through I was back listening to (and watching) British acts

Yours,

Never a Punk, Wz

 

[chickens]

I have not (and in true punk spirit am not going to) read the rest of this thread, but just wanted to put on record that the Clash sound nothing like a punk band should sound, and that the Minutemen were the glorious pinnacle of American Punk.

 

[loz]

I know what you mean.
Side 6 rarely got played back in the day, but i let it play all the way through on Spotify now.

I gave up on side 3, and never went back.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I gave up on side 3, and never went back.

That's a shame, side 4's got some BANGERS.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

That's a shame, side 4's got some BANGERS.

Indeed.

I agree there are some experimental fillers on the album.
But a cut down Sandinista would have made a better double album than London Calling, IMO.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Indeed.

I agree there are some experimental fillers on the album.
But a cut down Sandinista would have made a better double album than London Calling, IMO.

It would definitely have been a "better" album if they'd lost a couple of sides, but it'd be much less interesting/funny to talk about.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Indeed.

I agree there are some experimental fillers on the album.
But a cut down Sandinista would have made a better double album than London Calling, IMO.

Pretty sure I read something somewhere that said The Clash were doing double and triple albums because they wanted to extricate themselves from their CBS contract asap and that for purposes of fulfilling a contract of n albums, a double album counted as two albums and a triple album counted as three albums

 

[loz]

That's a shame, side 4's got some BANGERS.

I got heavily into bands like Crass, conflict, Flux of pink Indians and Brightons own poison girls by that stage , as far as I was concerned The clash had bugged off to the USA to become rock stars.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I got heavily into bands like Crass, conflict, Flux of pink Indians and Brightons own poison girls by that stage as far as I was concerned The clash had bugged off to the USA to become rock stars.

"By that stage" meaning, half way through the second disc?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I got heavily into bands like Crass, conflict, Flux of pink Indians and Brightons own poison girls by that stage , as far as I was concerned The clash had bugged off to the USA to become rock stars.

I get that.

My guess is that you may be a few years older than me and were involved at the beginning of Punk.
I was 8 at the time and during my teens, i was more interested in the bands inspired by punk, than punk itself.

The clash's output didn't feel like selling out to me, as I wasn't really there at the beginning.
But New Order's evolution into a dance music, felt like the greatest betrayal of Ian Curtis's legacy.
Took me a long time to come around.

 

[loz]

I get that.

My guess is that you may be a few years older than me and were involved at the beginning of Punk.
I was 8 at the time and during my teens, i was more interested in the bands inspired by punk, than punk itself.

The clash's output didn't feel like selling out to me, as I wasn't really there at the beginning.
But New Order's evolution into a dance music, felt like the greatest betrayal of Ian Curtis's legacy.
Took me a long time to come around.

59, my sister was good friends with members of Johnny moped and the drummer from the uk subs so I was exposed to punk from about 13/14 in quite a big way.

 

[happypig]

I remember my old man got me interested in punk in late70s listening to John peel from 10 till midnight most nights. Got into some amazing groups back then and subsequently saved up and got a massive passion for going to virgin records on queen's Road to buy my single and album vinyls. Ramones Road to ruin album yellow vinyl was one of my treasures along with 100s more.

My dad took me to see the jam in 78 at the dome(ear plugs most definitely in) blimey I was only 9. That really opened my eyes to my music passion up till this current day.Happy days.

He did you a favour there.
I never used earplugs and, after several hundred gigs between 78-90 my ears are properly f**ked.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Took me a while to like it, I still skip some tracks though.

the kids singing for example

I absolutely love the Timon Dogg tracks. There was some comment yesterday, may have been on this thread, about how Strummer stitched up the 101ers by leaving for Rhodes' siren call. Dogg was part of the 101ers set up, so the falling out can't have been a big deal.