[Politics] British IS Girl wanting to return to the UK

[Simster]

If she'd been, say, a Polish convert from Christianity who'd run off to IS then I can't see as the outcome would've been more positive for her.

Possibly true, but if she'd been an indigenous white English schoolgirl who converted from Christianity to run off to IS, I'd have my doubts.

 

[RossyG]

Your first comment is a very worrying indictment of the fallibility of our judicial system, but as your second comment acknowledges is a matter of genuine concern.

There's making the law and then judging specific cases.

The latter is very fallible and is prone to bias. Not sure what can be done about it other than review and scrutiny.

It's not always clear cut, either. Sometimes that's due to bad, vague laws being made in the first place, which is a problem with the former.

But what can be done? Transparency and discussion is the key, but miscarriages of justice will still happen. That's why I'm against the death penalty. Robbing the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six of so many years of freedom was awful, but at least we could free them. Imagine if we'd executed them!

 

[Drumstick]

There’s being misled and there is running off to join IS.

At 15 you have enough about you to know that is wrong and you know that the very country you’ve left, likely passing on information to use in an attack is unlikely to let you back in.


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[shingle]

Possibly true, but if she'd been an indigenous white English schoolgirl who converted from Christianity to run off to IS, I'd have my doubts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally-Anne_Jones

At least she hasn't suffered the fate of this indigenous white English woman who converted to Islam and ran off to join IS.

 

[Poojah]

Wow! Someone has actually bothered to put me on ignore!

Shame really because this is predominantly an Albion football board and I've found myself agreeing with almost everything you say on that subject.

As for this accusation of whataboutery, I can't really see it. My issue with the way she has been treated is that she was a minor at the time. I've evoked that white middle class example simply because had she been white, middle class and of a traditional Christian background, I don't think we'd have seen this.

Maybe I should have just left the example to one side and asked whether you'd expect YOUR 15 year old son or daughter to have citizenship revoked for the crime of falling into the clutches of a murderous mindset. I just worry this is all about pandering to a certain type of person rather than doing what is right and expected by a country of our world standing.

It’s tricky one this for me. On the surface, it’s hard to find sympathy for someone, regardless of their age, race or gender, who travelled abroad with the intent of committing terrorist atrocities, potentially against their own nation.

I can however see the argument that she is also a victim. The victim of those who brainwashed her, and the victim of a system of a community and a system that failed to protect her when she was, crucially, a child. She is facing a life in exile, in appalling conditions, based on decisions she made when she was 15 (albeit, there didn’t appear to be an immediate u-turn). Is that fair? I don’t know. But there are certainly other ways of looking at it.

Putting to one side the argument of public reaction should she be allowed to return, her biggest problem is that the situation is now bigger than Shamima Begum. Right now, she is a case study in poor decision making. Christ, I made some bad decisions when I was 15, and I still make them at 35, though I always stopped short of joining an extremist terrorist malitia.

If there are other, impressionable kids (and adults) out there being pressured into following a very dire life path (and there will be), this young lady serves as a very good reason to think twice. Do you really want to find yourself isolated on a squalid camp in Syria, surrounded by the shallow graves of your dead children, with literally nowhere else to go? That’s quite a powerful image, no matter what lies have been fed to you.

Let her back in? In the simplest sense, it sends out a message that you can give it a go, and if it doesn’t work out, you can always come back. Shamima Begum has become a PR campaign against joining ISIS, or any extremist faction for that matter. She is the poster girl of poor life choices.

In that sense alone, her exile may well go onto save many souls from following such a disastrous path. And I think that will be the ultimate kicker for her.

“We don’t negotiate with terrorists”.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Possibly true, but if she'd been an indigenous white English schoolgirl who converted from Christianity to run off to IS, I'd have my doubts.

she isn't she's a stain on this country and best off where she is , make your bed and lay in it, who stumped up the money for her appeal do you reckon
regards
DF

 

[rippleman]

The system has failed.

As a British subject she should be back here to face justice, we need to know what happened, who are the ring leaders etc...

This was my initial reaction too. Let her back in to arrest her and charge her with treason then lock her up until she comes out in a box. But then:-

1) We would have to pay to keep her in prison for maybe 60 years
2) There would be a serious threat that she would indoctrinate and recruit for her hateful cause whilst in prison

So on balance, I think we are much better off without her and the Court made the right decision.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

This was my initial reaction too. Let her back in to arrest her and charge her with treason then lock her up until she comes out in a box. But then:-

1) We would have to pay to keep her in prison for maybe 60 years
2) There would be a serious threat that she would indoctrinate and recruit for her hateful cause whilst in prison

So on balance, I think we are much better off without her and the Court made the right decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmO6RWy1v8
TREASON = the rope
regards
DF

 

[rippleman]

TREASON = the rope
regards
DF

Not since 1998 fella.

I have always been anti capital punishment. Until we have a police force and judiciary that are fair, honest, unbiased and incorruptible we just cant be trusted to have nice toys like hanging. If we had still had the death penalty when the Guildford Four, Birmingham Six and many other innocents were fitted up by the police and establishment we would have murdered them.

No, no, no. No death penalty until we all play nice.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Not since 1998 fella.

I have always been anti capital punishment. Until we have a police force and judiciary that are fair, honest, unbiased and incorruptible we just cant be trusted to have nice toys like hanging. If we had still had the death penalty when the Guildford Four, Birmingham Six and many other innocents were fitted up by the police and establishment we would have murdered them.

No, no, no. No death penalty until we all play nice.

but they weren't charged with treason ? i didn't know it had been abolished.
regards
DF

 

[Hugo Rune]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally-Anne_Jones

At least she hasn't suffered the fate of this indigenous white English woman who converted to Islam and ran off to join IS.

That Woman (in her 40’s) allegedly actively took part in terrorist activities though and was a top target for the U.S. The White Widow got what she deserved but due to her skin colour, she never really captured the indignation of the nationalists and right wing in this country:

“A petition which called for a ban on the mother ever returning to Britain was signed by more than 18,000 people. “

 

[Badger Boy]

It's great news for Covid that the old faithful is back on Sky News. The click count for articles must have fallen dramatically for them to bring out this old Horseman. We're back to being scared of her again, are we? Brilliant - because that means nothing else important is happening and they can go back to getting their clicks from tossers who think it matters one way or the other whether this immature little girl is allowed back or not. In my opinion, this is what Trump was getting at with the term, "fake news". This is fake news. It's absolute nonsense being reported as if it is of national importance.

It most certainly is not.

 

[Simster]

I just worry this is all about pandering to a certain type of person rather than doing what is right and expected by a country of our world standing.

she isn't she's a stain on this country and best off where she is , make your bed and lay in it, who stumped up the money for her appeal do you reckon
regards
DF

 

[Creaky]

This was my initial reaction too. Let her back in to arrest her and charge her with treason then lock her up until she comes out in a box. But then:-

1) We would have to pay to keep her in prison for maybe 60 years
2) There would be a serious threat that she would indoctrinate and recruit for her hateful cause whilst in prison

So on balance, I think we are much better off without her and the Court made the right decision.

And possibly an innocent child might not have died.

 

[rippleman]

That Woman (in her 40’s) allegedly actively took part in terrorist activities though and was a top target for the U.S. The White Widow got what she deserved but due to her skin colour, she never really captured the indignation of the nationalists and right wing in this country:

“A petition which called for a ban on the mother ever returning to Britain was signed by more than 18,000 people. “

When you try to make something like this a right v left argument you can end up looking pretty daft.

I am a lifelong Labour supporter (never voted Tory in any election). A former Trades Union official. A former member of the Anti-Nazi League. I am against discrimination of any kind (including positive discrimination). "Equal rights and justice for one and all" (I'm sure HWT will be along to post the video shortly )

I'm a left wing liberal but my opinions on issues like this are not dictated whatsoever by political views. I don't think "I'm left wing so I must think XYZ or my view must be ABC"

I am also very much a patriot. I abhor a UK national who undertakes traitorous terrorist acts against their country. I do not give a **** about the colour of their skin. I shed no tears over the death of the White Widow and I shall certainly shed no tears over whatever fate holds in store for the traitor Begum. A plague on both their houses

 

[jakarta]

Piece of Shit if she comes back it should be to a very large dose of Porridge where she can reconsider the merits of Islam...

 

[The Clamp]

I'd house her next to Ppf. It'd piss him right off and make her life intolerable at the same time. Plus, the neighbours would finally have someone nicer than Ppf to talk to

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The problem I have with this is as follows: imagine a scenario where a 15 year old middle class white kid becomes indoctrinated with white power hate, and trots off to the USA to join a camp run by the KKK where he learns to create nail bombs, specifically to be placed in black areas of London. Then our authorities find out what he's doing and refuse him entry back into the country at Heathrow while they consider the implications of doing so. Can you imagine any scenario whatsoever where that boy is unrepentant but wants entry back into the country and is refused?

Of course not. Qwhite an interesting difference isn't it?

Now you put it like that......

Could it be that some of us white folk (me included) have this subconscious idea in our head that she was never 'really' British to begin with, being a bit dark and a bit muslimy?

Now you come to mention it.....is there a law which says that if you disavow our nation, regardles of your birthright, you disavow your right to citizenship? I genuinely don't know the answer to this but I suspect he answer is 'yes'.

So even though I own up to a bit of subconscious racism here, possibly, I am not sure how the law stands on a british citizen who turns traitor and flees.

Next and separate question that may trump the first, if you are legally a child when you disavow your nation (as she was) does it still count? I thought that in this country you can't be charged as an adult if you were a child when you committed 'the crime'. Hence the 'let him have it' conviction (and execution) of Derek Bentley when the actual shooter, the other guy, was under age.

I'd like to know that the law is being followed properly here. I get the impression there may be some grey areas. Does anyone know the facts?

 

[Simster]

[tweet]1365289294697553922[/tweet]

 

[RossyG]

[tweet]1365289294697553922[/tweet]

They can have him as far as I'm concerned.

But he didn't renounce his citizenship and plot to overthrow Britain. If he'd taken Vietnamese citizenship, we probably would have made sure it stayed that way, though.