[Politics] British IS Girl wanting to return to the UK

[southstandandy]

Piece of Shit if she comes back it should be to a very large dose of Porridge where she can reconsider the merits of Islam...

Suspect they wouldn't let her back anyway as the state woud be lumbered with a duty of care for her.

Pretty sure if she did get allowed back in that the press would hunt her down, then someone or some group would try to take retribution. Ironically she's probably safer where she is.

 

[Bry Nylon]

[tweet]1365289294697553922[/tweet]

...he didn't renounce his citizenship and plot to overthrow Britain.

Fair point but all things considered 'I'm the Leader of the Gang' is probably a greater crime against humanity.

 

[TugWilson]

Chatting with Mrs T about this today. She's much more liberal/green than me. She's largely comfortable with the situation.

My view is if there is mental illness, let's be kind. She has shown no remorse and her regret is wistful rather than bitter. Is that mental illness? Hmmm.

As a 15 year old she decided to go to join a group that were murdering defenceless people, to go to the middle east, to marry one of them (any one of them). Is that mental illness? Hmmm. And she went with two pals, too. Is that a contagion of mental illness? Hmmm.....

A very odd set of circumstances but this was a deliberate act, part of it being a declaration, not of war, but the intention to marry and have babies with someone whose only qualification was a determination to commit genocide on unbelievers (i.e., the British). Think: lord Haw Haw on stilts. Did we allow him to re-enter British Society and live out a peaceful life? Hmmm.....

Sorry, but this wet Trained Socialist has no sympathy, regardles of whether the Home Secretary is Priti Patel or not :shug:

I can tell you as someone diagnosed with six individual mental health problems that this behaviour cannot be excused as a mental malady . Neither does the fact she was only 15 when she went to Syria , she was perfectly cognisant of her intentions and her actions .

The one detail that should frighten the hell out of anyone who might wish to show her leniency is her description of playing with a plastic dustbin filled with the decapitated heads of people the same as you and i , who her "comrades" had murdered and the intimation that she would happily do the same to you and i .

 

[happypig]

Next and separate question that may trump the first, if you are legally a child when you disavow your nation (as she was) does it still count? I thought that in this country you can't be charged as an adult if you were a child when you committed 'the crime'. Hence the 'let him have it' conviction (and execution) of Derek Bentley when the actual shooter, the other guy, was under age.

I'd like to know that the law is being followed properly here. I get the impression there may be some grey areas. Does anyone know the facts?

Regarding crimes committed as a child, you are correct that if you commit a crime as a juvenile then, even if you're over 18 when sentenced, the sentence is as per a youth. There's also a thing whereby you cannot be sentenced more harshly if the penalties have changed since committing the crime; that's why some of the people sentenced for historic paedophilia got lesser sentences, because the sentence is based on the law at the time of the offence.

A for renouncing citizenship, I only know what Italian law is after researching my eligibilty, and that states that you cannot lose citizenship if you're a child (my mum retained her eleigibility as she was a minor when my grandad declared war on Italy in WW2 (well, he didn't personally, he was in the Royal Navy).

 

[Bry Nylon]

Does anyone know the facts?

You silly sausage Harry; of course no one knows the facts. What fun would that be?

But based on this thread, I have given Shamima Begum an xT (expected terrorist) of 3.75 so on that basis she's stopping where she is.

 

[Swansman]

Dont know anything about this girl, but one thing I do know is that 15 year olds sometimes do stupid stuff they regret later and how you deal with it says a lot about a society.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Dont know anything about this girl, but one thing I do know is that 15 year olds sometimes do stupid stuff they regret later and how you deal with it says a lot about a society.

17 year olds do as well so do people who are 18, 19 etc.... drawing an absolute line in the sand because of age is not necessarily the right thing , its more what was the reasoning made at the time. I think her move to Syria was after the well publicised murder of westerners.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

talkRADIO (@talkRADIO) Tweeted:
Shamima Begum cannot return to the UK to pursue an appeal against the removal of her British citizenship, the Supreme Court has ruled.
[MENTION=16554]julia[/MENTION]HB1 | @cphillips_ippso https://t.co/3c9gCbyBPf https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1365246798227533828?s=20
Regards
DF

 

[jcdenton08]

Wow! Someone has actually bothered to put me on ignore!

Shame really because this is predominantly an Albion football board and I've found myself agreeing with almost everything you say on that subject.

As for this accusation of whataboutery, I can't really see it. My issue with the way she has been treated is that she was a minor at the time. I've evoked that white middle class example simply because had she been white, middle class and of a traditional Christian background, I don't think we'd have seen this.

Maybe I should have just left the example to one side and asked whether you'd expect YOUR 15 year old son or daughter to have citizenship revoked for the crime of falling into the clutches of a murderous mindset. I just worry this is all about pandering to a certain type of person rather than doing what is right and expected by a country of our world standing.

Running away to willingly become a terrorist, with the stated intention of jihad against the very country which housed, educated and provided for you... Well, it's not exactly youthful hijinx is it.

This deliberate downplaying of what are extremely serious and morally reprehensible crimes really makes me question liberal logic sometimes

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You silly sausage Harry; of course no one knows the facts. What fun would that be?

But based on this thread, I have given Shamima Begum an xT (expected terrorist) of 3.75 so on that basis she's stopping where she is.

I'm a scientist, I need facts. Or a hypothesis to interrogate. Or just a flimsy premise to explore.

That said, half the reason I come on here is for the freedom to express a view without any supporting evidence and then have a shouting match with people, with the winner declared on the basis of who has been most tricksy with their wordsmithery*.

*Let's face it. It's me, isn't it And if it isn't, I just put the other fugger on ignore

ps

xT

 

[marlowe]

When you try to make something like this a right v left argument you can end up looking pretty daft.

I am a lifelong Labour supporter (never voted Tory in any election). A former Trades Union official. A former member of the Anti-Nazi League. I am against discrimination of any kind (including positive discrimination). "Equal rights and justice for one and all" (I'm sure HWT will be along to post the video shortly )

I'm a left wing liberal but my opinions on issues like this are not dictated whatsoever by political views. I don't think "I'm left wing so I must think XYZ or my view must be ABC"

I am also very much a patriot. I abhor a UK national who undertakes traitorous terrorist acts against their country. I do not give a **** about the colour of their skin. I shed no tears over the death of the White Widow and I shall certainly shed no tears over whatever fate holds in store for the traitor Begum. A plague on both their houses

I'm not sure English Heritage would consider joining ISIS an accomplishment worthy of commemoration with a blue plaque....

 

[Seagull58]

Dont know anything about this girl, but one thing I do know is that 15 year olds sometimes do stupid stuff they regret later and how you deal with it says a lot about a society.

She renounced her British citizenship in favour of radical Islam, knowing full well that the people she was joining were beheading westerners and any other "heretic" they could get their hands on with great gusto. They also had a sideline in crucifixion and burning people alive. She enthusiastically welcomed this into her life, married one of them and started pushing out babies. When it all went tits up she never said she was sorry but simply begged to be allowed to return to the UK as if it was all a good dream. Draw your own conclusions now that you know a little more.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

She renounced her British citizenship in favour of radical Islam, knowing full well that the people she was joining were beheading westerners and any other "heretic" they could get their hands on with great gusto. They also had a sideline in crucifixion and burning people alive. She enthusiastically welcomed this into her life, married one of them and started pushing out babies. When it all went tits up she never said she was sorry but simply begged to be allowed to return to the UK as if it was all a good dream. Draw your own conclusions now that you know a little more.

I can sort of understand the 'she was only an impressionable teenager/ we all make mistakes' argument up to a point but as you accurately identify I think we all know if ISIS had prevailed she would be more than happy to have stayed put looking on while 'infidels' were beheaded/crucified banging out little Jihadis left right and centre. We also know de-radicalisation programs in Uk prisons are hardly foolproof so on balance best she stays as far away from the UK as possible ... reap what you sow.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Running away to willingly become a terrorist, with the stated intention of jihad against the very country which housed, educated and provided for you... Well, it's not exactly youthful hijinx is it.

This deliberate downplaying of what are extremely serious and morally reprehensible crimes really makes me question liberal logic sometimes

She renounced her British citizenship in favour of radical Islam, knowing full well that the people she was joining were beheading westerners and any other "heretic" they could get their hands on with great gusto. They also had a sideline in crucifixion and burning people alive. She enthusiastically welcomed this into her life, married one of them and started pushing out babies. When it all went tits up she never said she was sorry but simply begged to be allowed to return to the UK as if it was all a good dream. Draw your own conclusions now that you know a little more.

I can sort of understand the 'she was only an impressionable teenager/ we all make mistakes' argument up to a point but as you accurately identify I think we all know if ISIS had prevailed she would be more than happy to have stayed put looking on while 'infidels' were beheaded/crucified banging out little Jihadis left right and centre. We also know de-radicalisation programs in Uk prisons are hardly foolproof so on balance best she stays as far away from the UK as possible ... reap what you sow.

I have it very much in mind that she was only 15 when she left, and obviously it was a stupid thing to do. But how about firstly the failure of the authorities to prevent her and her two friends being radicalised in the first place, and secondly the failure of whoever might have been responsible for actually allowing them - or rather failing to prevent them - leaving the country in the first place...... about which there was quite a lot of fuss at the time.

Whatever Priti Patel might have said, it was arguably her government’s fault in the first place, so don’t they bear some responsibility for sorting it out?
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[Is it PotG?]

I have it very much in mind that she was only 15 when she left, and obviously it was a stupid thing to do. But how about firstly the failure of the authorities to prevent her and her two friends being radicalised in the first place, and secondly the failure of whoever might have been responsible for actually allowing them - or rather failing to prevent them - leaving the country in the first place...... about which there was quite a lot of fuss at the time.

Whatever Priti Patel might have said, it was arguably her government’s fault in the first place, so don’t they bear some responsibility for sorting it out?
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If someone had intervened, wouldn't the yoghurt knitters scream about freedom of choice and civil liberties?

 

[Chicken Run]

I have it very much in mind that she was only 15 when she left, and obviously it was a stupid thing to do. But how about firstly the failure of the authorities to prevent her and her two friends being radicalised in the first place, and secondly the failure of whoever might have been responsible for actually allowing them - or rather failing to prevent them - leaving the country in the first place...... about which there was quite a lot of fuss at the time.

Whatever Priti Patel might have said, it was arguably her government’s fault in the first place, so don’t they bear some responsibility for sorting it out?
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What about her parents, they ultimately are responsible for her behaviour surely?

Can’t believe your handing the responsibility to the government, are you for real!!!

 

[GT49er]

Whatever Priti Patel might have said, it was arguably her government’s fault in the first place, so don’t they bear some responsibility for sorting it out?

No.

 

[Seagull58]

I have it very much in mind that she was only 15 when she left, and obviously it was a stupid thing to do. But how about firstly the failure of the authorities to prevent her and her two friends being radicalised in the first place, and secondly the failure of whoever might have been responsible for actually allowing them - or rather failing to prevent them - leaving the country in the first place...... about which there was quite a lot of fuss at the time.

Whatever Priti Patel might have said, it was arguably her government’s fault in the first place, so don’t they bear some responsibility for sorting it out?
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Why on earth is it the government's fault? As far as I know it's not illegal for 15 year olds to travel abroad if they have passports. It's also not illegal to have radical ideas. It only becomes illegal when you commit illegal acts. If it was illegal to have radical ideas Jezza would have been in prison for the last 40 years.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m against the death penalty.

But if a member of my family was murdered, I’d happily smash the murderer to a pulp with a baseball bat.

Legal decisions should be made by calm and wise heads not emotional participants.

Agree, 110%.

Time I buried the hatchet (lodged only in my own mind) I suspect.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

If someone had intervened, wouldn't the yoghurt knitters scream about freedom of choice and civil liberties?

No. She was 15. That’s fifteen. Still at an age of needing to be protected.