[Albion] Brighton Women Final Home Game this season to be staged at the Amex on 28th April

[Miami Seagull]

Respectfully, you've failed to address what I've argued here either about organically growing attendances at women's games, or the suitability of a stadium with a capacity over 83 times larger than the last home attendance.

If you think I'm being deliberately selective choosing a midweek game, the last Sunday home game (v Everton, Sun 13th January 2019) had 454 at the game. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46772730#tab-0

As someone who’s both coached and sponsored a women’s team for 4 years over here in DWFA (Dubai Women’s Football Association) with ladies ranging in ages from 14-52, it’s fair to say that I’ve done my bit with growing the women’s game, if only in a relatively small sense. I’m aware this revelation may not quite fit a ‘misogynist’ narrative, but it’s probably worth disclosing at this juncture.

It’s a shame that objective criticism is often viewed as vitriol. Most supporters of the beautiful game would probably love to see women's football succeed. To succeed properly though it needs to do what football, rugby union and league and all other sports did to get to where they are, and that's to grow from the bottom up. Money, attention and success follow popularity not the other way round.

It will be very interesting to see what effect that the recently-announced 3 year, £10m sponsorship of the WSL by Barclays will have. With WSL Yeovil going into administration due to financial difficulties in the last week and currently sitting on a points total of -3, it probably can’t come too soon. They follow on the heels of Notts County Ladies who folded on the eve of the Spring Series in 2017, just two days before their first scheduled match of that campaign. Last summer, Sunderland dropped down two divisions, from the WSL to the Women's National League North, after they were unsuccessful in their bid for a licence to play in one of the top two divisions. Sheffield FC and last season's second-tier winners Doncaster Rovers Belles both withdrew from the Championship last summer for financial reasons.

Even one of the best side in the women’s domestic game, Manchester City, haven't made it financially sustainable without support:
“Since integration with the men's team and a subsequent relaunch in 2014, City have come a long way, but in order to get this far, a loss of almost £1.5m has been incurred.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/manchester-united-womens-super-league-city-arsenal-liverpool-everton-a8270911.html

The reality is that a large percentage of supporters of football clubs across the country currently have no interest in watching their women's team. The gate figures consistently bear this out. They also have no interest in watching the youth team, reserves, or age group teams: again, the gate figures bear this out. Just because you put the women's team in the same kit doesn't mean that everyone will jump on the bandwagon. That’s why it’s important to grow the attendances away from the usual traditionally male fanbase. Similar to netball which has greatly increased its public visibility since the Commonwealth Games, the natural fanbase of women’s football are girls in schools. Reach out to them and the rest will follow.

Women's football has to survive and grow on its own merits. Subsidizing it and force-feeding it down football fans who only follow the men's game is not the way forward. Playing women's football regularly in massive stadiums is not the answer - it will simply highlight the lack of substance to the commerciality of the sport. Until women en masse choose to support women's football it will struggle.

And no amount of comments blaming men or perceived misogyny will change reality.

Excellent post.

 

[hart's shirt]

Your erroneous assumption than the men's game is watched only by men and the women's game is of lesser value because it is watched by women and children makes you a dick. If you don't see why, then I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain it to you.

As for deleting the previous comment? F**k off, dick!

Firstly, many thanks for your reply here.

Now where exactly did I clearly state that the men's game was watched by only men? Or that the women's game was of lesser value?

Show me and I'll retract those comments. If not, there is a possibility that you're projecting and reading into it what you want to.

I deleted the your "Excellent response. Well done." comment as your views on another post weren't relevant to my reply to yours.

 

[Me and my Monkey]

Respectfully, you've failed to address what I've argued here either about organically growing attendances at women's games, or the suitability of a stadium with a capacity over 83 times larger than the last home attendance.

If you think I'm being deliberately selective choosing a midweek game, the last Sunday home game (v Everton, Sun 13th January 2019) had 454 at the game. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46772730#tab-0

As someone who’s both coached and sponsored a women’s team for 4 years over here in DWFA (Dubai Women’s Football Association) with ladies ranging in ages from 14-52, it’s fair to say that I’ve done my bit with growing the women’s game, if only in a relatively small sense. I’m aware this revelation may not quite fit a ‘misogynist’ narrative, but it’s probably worth disclosing at this juncture.

It’s a shame that objective criticism is often viewed as vitriol. Most supporters of the beautiful game would probably love to see women's football succeed. To succeed properly though it needs to do what football, rugby union and league and all other sports did to get to where they are, and that's to grow from the bottom up. Money, attention and success follow popularity not the other way round.

It will be very interesting to see what effect that the recently-announced 3 year, £10m sponsorship of the WSL by Barclays will have. With WSL Yeovil going into administration due to financial difficulties in the last week and currently sitting on a points total of -3, it probably can’t come too soon. They follow on the heels of Notts County Ladies who folded on the eve of the Spring Series in 2017, just two days before their first scheduled match of that campaign. Last summer, Sunderland dropped down two divisions, from the WSL to the Women's National League North, after they were unsuccessful in their bid for a licence to play in one of the top two divisions. Sheffield FC and last season's second-tier winners Doncaster Rovers Belles both withdrew from the Championship last summer for financial reasons.

Even one of the best side in the women’s domestic game, Manchester City, haven't made it financially sustainable without support:
“Since integration with the men's team and a subsequent relaunch in 2014, City have come a long way, but in order to get this far, a loss of almost £1.5m has been incurred.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/manchester-united-womens-super-league-city-arsenal-liverpool-everton-a8270911.html

The reality is that a large percentage of supporters of football clubs across the country currently have no interest in watching their women's team. The gate figures consistently bear this out. They also have no interest in watching the youth team, reserves, or age group teams: again, the gate figures bear this out. Just because you put the women's team in the same kit doesn't mean that everyone will jump on the bandwagon. That’s why it’s important to grow the attendances away from the usual traditionally male fanbase. Similar to netball which has greatly increased its public visibility since the Commonwealth Games, the natural fanbase of women’s football are girls in schools. Reach out to them and the rest will follow.

Women's football has to survive and grow on its own merits. Subsidizing it and force-feeding it down football fans who only follow the men's game is not the way forward. Playing women's football regularly in massive stadiums is not the answer - it will simply highlight the lack of substance to the commerciality of the sport. Until women en masse choose to support women's football it will struggle.

And no amount of comments blaming men or perceived misogyny will change reality.

Gosh, I wasn’t expecting that, and I bow down to your clearly superior knowledge of the women’s game. However, I still maintain that your post was over-analysed, condescending, in fact even a little insulting. The team don’t play their home games at the Amex, that would clearly be ridiculous to have them rattling around in a huge stadium in front of a few hundred people, the Crawley stadium is a better fit. This is a one off. As many people on this forum have pointed out before, Crawley is just too far for them to get to. It’s a great opportunity for people to get along and watch them, in a lovely stadium, a bring along some friends (men, women, and children) to enjoy the experience.

You seem to suggest that the women’s game should survive on its own merits and shouldn’t be subsidised. All the WSL teams are supported and subsidised by big clubs, or it wouldn’t exist. Brighton and Hove Albion football CLUB have chosen to invest a lot in their women’s team, and consequently we are now one of just a handful of clubs that have a team playing in the top women’s league in the country. I’m very proud of our club for doing so. Women’s football is fast growing in popularity, and our club has a duty to encourage and generate interest in our team.

I agree that there is naturally going to be a higher proportion of women and girls attending the women’s games, little girls will naturally want to watch players who inspire them and who they will want to emulate, but men really DO go and watch too, I’ve seen them at the games, and as I’ve already said, my Monkey loves to go along too. No-one is being force fed anything. To suggest playing a game at the Amex is force feeding the poor, hapless male supporters is frankly ludicrous.

Do you object to the U23s playing at the Amex too, is it not force feeding youth football to us? I’ll be going along, incidentally, but I’m an Albion geek.

 

[Gwylan]

Respectfully, you've failed to address what I've argued here either about organically growing attendances at women's games, or the suitability of a stadium with a capacity over 83 times larger than the last home attendance.

If you think I'm being deliberately selective choosing a midweek game, the last Sunday home game (v Everton, Sun 13th January 2019) had 454 at the game.

But you are being selective with your figures - a match played miles from B&H at a stadium that's not even in the same county. If we follow your argument, we shouldn't have built the Amex because we were only getting 3,000 at Gillingham.

If you want to make a more accurate comparison, look at the last time Albion Women played at the Amex - a record attendance of 3,256. And that was in a lower division on a day where it was pissing down. I'm sure that the Arsenal match will beat that attendance.

You make valid points about growing the game organically - and there does need to be more of an effort there - but growing the professional game is important too. The coverage given to women's sport by the media is pitiful. Yes, the BBC has a women's football programme on but it's around midnight and some people do have to work. Newspapers can certainly do more: The Telegraph is to be applauded here for appointing an editor for women's sports, other papers should follow.

Things will change. You seem to be forgetting that women's matches used to get attendances in the tens of thousands until the FA banned them from playing. It's a slow climb back from that but I'm sure we'll see women's football grow and grow.

 

[goldstone]

Women's football has to survive and grow on its own merits. Subsidising it to football fans who follow the men's game is not the way forward.

You need to generate fans of these women's clubs, not target the average football fan who is already deeply ingrained in supporting the men's team.

Instead, focus on women and kids who maybe aren't already lifelong supporters of clubs to try and build fan allegiance.

Until the grounds are full and women actually demonstrate full support, it's a bit rich asking men to fill the void, even with the incentive of free tickets.

Playing women's league football in massive stadiums is not the answer as it simply highlights the lack of interest with thousands of empty seats.

It does nothing to dispel the impression that a professional women's game is unviable unless dependent on the largesse of the men's game.

To put it into context, if you have a band playing live who can pull in 358 people (attendance of Albion Women v Birmingham Ladies on 20th Feb 2019 https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47221296), booking a venue for 30,000 would kill the atmosphere completely.

It's the same with this.

Until women start watching women’s football week-in, week-out, not just taking in the odd England game or cup final, the attendances are not going to rise by any significant margin, regardless of where the games are played.

Agree. It's ridiculous playing women's football at the Amex. It will look pretty bad with 500 fans in the stadium. It should be played in stadiums appropriate for the number of people watching.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Oh well.

I love football, womens football however holds no interest for me.
Same as womens rugby and womens boxing, love both sports but FFS....they are MENS sports.
And womens cricket.

Stick to netball girls

Put you down as a maybe then mate......

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Firstly, many thanks for your reply here.

Now where exactly did I clearly state that the men's game was watched by only men? Or that the women's game was of lesser value?

Show me and I'll retract those comments. If not, there is a possibility that you're projecting and reading into it what you want to.

Now you’ve edited your original post, you don’t.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Oh well.

I love football, womens football however holds no interest for me.
Same as womens rugby and womens boxing, love both sports but FFS....they are MENS sports.
And womens cricket.

Stick to netball girls

Ha ha love it, you are brave putting that with all the PC liberal types on here. Totally agree with you btw. Most of those who go and watch women's football are probably bored s***less with the match but pat themselves on the back as they are showcasing their PC credentials...........'oh look at me I'm so committed to diversity I go and watch women's football'. The sort of person who would do or watch anything as long as the PC brigade deem it the 'right' thing to do.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think there are suitable case studies available to, er, study, to see how to organically grow the women's game in this country. This is from a news report from a couple of weeks back:

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/juventus-women-draw-italian-record-39027-crowd/

'Juventus Women drew 39,027 fans for their game against Fiorentina at the Allianz Stadium on Sunday, smashing the attendance record for a women’s club game in Italy.

The latest landmark moment for women’s football came just a week after the world record for the highest attendance at a club game was set.

Last Sunday 60,739 supporters watched Atlético Madrid’s women’s team lose 2-0 to Barcelona at the Wanda Metropolitano Stadium.

Juventus Women normally play matches at the club’s training center in Vinovo. All tickets for Sunday’s game were free. The previous record for a women’s game in Italy was 14,000.

Meanwhile, a record nine countries have told Fifa they want to host the 2023 Women’s World Cup, while Barclays has signed a multi-million-pound deal as the first title sponsor of the English Women’s Super League.'

So there patently IS a market for women's football out there. Gotta start growing it somehow. And the women's team playing a competitive match at the Amex seems like a good early step, if only to test the water. Certainly beats the prospect of getting on a replacement bus to go and watch them in Crawley.

 

[Easy 10]

Last Sunday 60,739 supporters watched Atlético Madrid’s women’s team lose 2-0 to Barcelona at the Wanda Metropolitano Stadium.

Impressive number, but its perhaps worth pointing out that all the Atlético STH's were afforded free entry to this particular game, and they were also giving free tickets away for kids.

The attendances for Atlético's previous 5 games before that were 442, 467, 346, 1085 and 216.

 

[hart's shirt]

Now you’ve edited your original post, you don’t.

I edited my original post for typos within 7 minutes of posting, long before any replies came in.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I edited my original post for typos within 7 minutes of posting, long before any replies came in.

You wrote something about this all being 'aimed at men' (despite it being aimed at all Albion fans / season ticket holders - many of whom are not)

 

[hart's shirt]

If you want to make a more accurate comparison, look at the last time Albion Women played at the Amex - a record attendance of 3,256. And that was in a lower division on a day where it was pissing down. I'm sure that the Arsenal match will beat that attendance.

To get more than 3,256 in a one-off game at the Amex? Yes, it’s possible, especially if Arsenal are going for the title and bring down some extra support.

But would the women regularly get 3,000+ attendances (only 10% capacity) at the Amex?

Let’s look at last Sunday’s WSL attendances (figures from the BBC):

2,854 - Chelsea v West Ham

1,568 – Man City v Liverpool

1,520 – Birmingham City v Arsenal

391 – Bristol City v Reading

230 – Everton v Yeovil.
.
Whichever way one looks at it, the numbers (at least currently) don't add up when it comes to justifying women's teams playing regularly in large stadia.

What is the only likely catalyst to radically change these numbers in the short-term?

An England World Cup win in France. So let's hope they do it.

 

[Giraffe]

Respectfully, you've failed to address what I've argued here either about organically growing attendances at women's games, or the suitability of a stadium with a capacity over 83 times larger than the last home attendance.

If you think I'm being deliberately selective choosing a midweek game, the last Sunday home game (v Everton, Sun 13th January 2019) had 454 at the game. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46772730#tab-0

As someone who’s both coached and sponsored a women’s team for 4 years over here in DWFA (Dubai Women’s Football Association) with ladies ranging in ages from 14-52, it’s fair to say that I’ve done my bit with growing the women’s game, if only in a relatively small sense. I’m aware this revelation may not quite fit a ‘misogynist’ narrative, but it’s probably worth disclosing at this juncture.

It’s a shame that objective criticism is often viewed as vitriol. Most supporters of the beautiful game would probably love to see women's football succeed. To succeed properly though it needs to do what football, rugby union and league and all other sports did to get to where they are, and that's to grow from the bottom up. Money, attention and success follow popularity not the other way round.

It will be very interesting to see what effect that the recently-announced 3 year, £10m sponsorship of the WSL by Barclays will have. With WSL Yeovil going into administration due to financial difficulties in the last week and currently sitting on a points total of -3, it probably can’t come too soon. They follow on the heels of Notts County Ladies who folded on the eve of the Spring Series in 2017, just two days before their first scheduled match of that campaign. Last summer, Sunderland dropped down two divisions, from the WSL to the Women's National League North, after they were unsuccessful in their bid for a licence to play in one of the top two divisions. Sheffield FC and last season's second-tier winners Doncaster Rovers Belles both withdrew from the Championship last summer for financial reasons.

Even one of the best side in the women’s domestic game, Manchester City, haven't made it financially sustainable without support:
“Since integration with the men's team and a subsequent relaunch in 2014, City have come a long way, but in order to get this far, a loss of almost £1.5m has been incurred.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/manchester-united-womens-super-league-city-arsenal-liverpool-everton-a8270911.html

The reality is that a large percentage of supporters of football clubs across the country currently have no interest in watching their women's team. The gate figures consistently bear this out. They also have no interest in watching the youth team, reserves, or age group teams: again, the gate figures bear this out. Just because you put the women's team in the same kit doesn't mean that everyone will jump on the bandwagon. That’s why it’s important to grow the attendances away from the usual traditionally male fanbase. Similar to netball which has greatly increased its public visibility since the Commonwealth Games, the natural fanbase of women’s football are girls in schools. Reach out to them and the rest will follow.

Women's football has to survive and grow on its own merits. Subsidizing it and force-feeding it down football fans who only follow the men's game is not the way forward. Playing women's football regularly in massive stadiums is not the answer - it will simply highlight the lack of substance to the commerciality of the sport. Until women en masse choose to support women's football it will struggle.

And no amount of comments blaming men or perceived misogyny will change reality.

Great post, should be the end of the thread really.

Only thing I'd is that when you look at the attendance numbers the majority of the crowd must be family friends of the players/management plus a few club officials. Can't be many people actually going for enjoyment.

 

[bhanutz]

Women's football....What are the goalkeepers like?

 

[Me and my Monkey]

To get more than 3,256 in a one-off game at the Amex? Yes, it’s possible, especially if Arsenal are going for the title and bring down some extra support.

But would the women regularly get 3,000+ attendances (only 10% capacity) at the Amex?

Let’s look at last Sunday’s WSL attendances (figures from the BBC):

2,854 - Chelsea v West Ham

1,568 – Man City v Liverpool

1,520 – Birmingham City v Arsenal

391 – Bristol City v Reading

230 – Everton v Yeovil.
.
Whichever way one looks at it, the numbers (at least currently) don't add up when it comes to justifying women's teams playing regularly in large stadia.

What is the only likely catalyst to radically change these numbers in the short-term?

An England World Cup win in France. So let's hope they do it.

Now you’re contradicting yourself.

“Money, attention and success follow popularity not the other way round.”

“What is the only likely catalyst to radically change these numbers in the short-term?
An England World Cup win in France. So let’s hope they do it.”

I think you’ve dug yourself into a bit of a hole.

 

[hart's shirt]

Now you’re contradicting yourself.

“Money, attention and success follow popularity not the other way round.”

“What is the only likely catalyst to radically change these numbers in the short-term?
An England World Cup win in France. So let’s hope they do it.”

I think you’ve dug yourself into a bit of a hole.

Not really. The world's biggest women's football tournament is always going to be the exception to prove the rule.

Away from this exception, organic growth aimed at the primary target market of women's sport (i.e. women) is the best way to grow the game.

 

[hart's shirt]

You wrote something about this all being 'aimed at men' (despite it being aimed at all Albion fans / season ticket holders - many of whom are not)

Of course, that's true enough - many are not men. But I'd hazard a guess to say the majority of supporters up in the stands still are.

If WSL attendances aren't seeing a general increase across the country, the targeting of these mainly-male supporter groups with marketing isn't working.

Furthermore, just by looking at the numbers, I'd suggest that plenty of female supporters don't have a comparable passion for attending women's games.

How does that change? Target a different audience who are predominantly female.

 

[hart's shirt]

Great post, should be the end of the thread really.

Only thing I'd is that when you look at the attendance numbers the majority of the crowd must be family friends of the players/management plus a few club officials. Can't be many people actually going for enjoyment.

Thanks! For lower WSL teams with attendances in the low hundreds rather than thousands, there would seem to be some truth there.

That said, I'd politely disagree with you a bit on the enjoyment aspect. It may be hard for a few on the thread to believe, but I absolutely loved coaching women's football at strictly amateur expat level here. It was a great way for ladies of all ages, size and abilities to get out of the house and play a sport that they genuinely loved. And most thought it was much more fun and less shaming than the gym! At the peak, we had over 200 ladies here training and playing at Jebel Ali which is where many of the Premier League sides come to have their warm weather training during international breaks. Great facilities, lawn-like pitches. What's not to like?

We did have a few spectators, but they were mainly friends and family there to support. But they all enjoyed themselves as they were coming back week after week. Now admittedly that's a marked difference from WSL, but further down the women's leagues there are increasing parallels to be drawn. The game's meant to be fun, after all.

So would I go and watch the Albion women? Sure. If I'm back at the end of April, I'll go along and happily support them.

But let's not kid ourselves on the core supporter base involved here. It is what it is, for now at least.

 

[Beach Seagull]

To get more than 3,256 in a one-off game at the Amex? Yes, it’s possible, especially if Arsenal are going for the title and bring down some extra support.

But would the women regularly get 3,000+ attendances (only 10% capacity) at the Amex?

Let’s look at last Sunday’s WSL attendances (figures from the BBC):

2,854 - Chelsea v West Ham

1,568 – Man City v Liverpool

1,520 – Birmingham City v Arsenal

391 – Bristol City v Reading

230 – Everton v Yeovil.
.
Whichever way one looks at it, the numbers (at least currently) don't add up when it comes to justifying women's teams playing regularly in large stadia.

What is the only likely catalyst to radically change these numbers in the short-term?

An England World Cup win in France. So let's hope they do it.

Nah get the birds to play topless.