[Football] Brighton v Palace features video ref trial

[Seasider78]

Not a fan of this at all and the start of the end of the flow of the game

BREAKING: Video assistant referee to be trialled at FA Cup third round tie between @OfficialBHAFC and [MENTION=15976]CPFC[/MENTION] Palace in January. #SSN

Confirmed by club first competitive fixture in UK to feature the use of a video referee. Problem is they will be spoiling for an excuse to use and test it

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.c...ton-palace-cup-tie-will-be-competitive-first/

 

[RyFish]

Not a fan of this at all and the start of the end of the flow of the game

For me it's better to have the right decision rather than a quick one.

 

[kevo]

All depends how it is deployed. It wasn't used at all during the England v Germany game. Should only be used for controversial, game-changing decisions.

 

[Foul Play Rocks]

All depends how it is deployed. It wasn't used at all during the England v Germany game. Should only be used for controversial, game-changing decisions.

Very much this!!

 

[happypig]

So a 12.30 kick off and a 16:45 final whistle then...

 

[Easy 10]

All depends how it is deployed. It wasn't used at all during the England v Germany game. Should only be used for controversial, game-changing decisions.

It can only be used to review 4 things:

Goals
Red cards
Penalty decisions
Mistaken identity

There's enough in that little lot to open up a WHOPPING great big can of worms though. Its all well and good when its a straightforward decision, but when its highly debatable even on review is when the fun and games will start.

Wonder how long they'd have taken over that Pogba red card the other day.

 

[Mellotron]

Seen it used well in a Belgian league game - quite the opposite of undermining the referee, he gained greater respect for being able to acknowledge he was human and may have made an error with human eyes and human reaction speeds.

When it's for something highly controversial/debatable then the "disrupting the flow of the game" argument becomes completely moot as the players will usually surround the ref for just as long as it takes for the correct decision to be made.

Here's hoping it works.

VAR doesn't mean every decision will be correct, but that the ref has the best possible perspective from which to make his decision - which if (and it's a massive IF) it can be implemented without disrupting the flow of the game, is an inarguably good thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Shuggie]

40 years too late

 

[TheJasperCo]

Ok so on the one hand it's important to get the key decisions right during the game - matches obviously are won or lost based on an incorrect penalty or an erroneous red card. But this needs to be balanced with letting the game flow. It's different in tennis and cricket, even rugby to a certain extent, where the game is broken up into phases. If one team has the momentum and it takes 60 seconds or more to make a referral, what's that going to do to their psyche?

What is really needed are competent referees and officials who don't make stupid mistakes that are blindingly apparent to the entire stadium. It's a tricky one to balance, but I don't see what can be gained from trialling this technology at such a feisty and gruelling tie between two bitter rivals.

Won't end well - I worry.

 

[Easy 10]

I fear this being the thin end of the wedge. Once its there and becomes routine, the ref will be under pressure to use it more and more when he's not certain of a decision (it already happens in cricket). He'll start using it as a crutch, and we could well get to a point where many goal celebrations are "on ice" pending a review of something in the build-up, especially a late goal. Which would be proper shit.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Not a fan of this at all and the start of the end of the flow of the game

BREAKING: Video assistant referee to be trialled at FA Cup third round tie between @OfficialBHAFC and [MENTION=15976]CPFC[/MENTION] Palace in January. #SSN

Confirmed by club first competitive fixture in UK to feature the use of a video referee. Problem is they will be spoiling for an excuse to use and test it

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.c...ton-palace-cup-tie-will-be-competitive-first/

Anyone else think that the first decision reviewed will go against us? (our goal chalked off, or they get a penalty from something the ref missed, etc....) - seeing as we have lost out recently over a couple of incidences which, if reviewed would have potentially gone in our favour (e.g. Lukaku's kick at OT, meaning no own goal against Dunk for example, or would that still have stood even if it had been reviewed as it wouldn't be something they would look for, more whether it crosses the line or not?)

 

[Stat Brother]

Zahahaha won't be playing then.

 

[AZ Gull]

The photo which accompanies that article is of referee Roger East and is credited to the club photographer, Paul Hazlewood, so is probably taken at the (empty) Amex:-



Back on November 1st, the Albion U-18 league match against Aston Villa was played at the Amex with Roger East as the referee. This was strange for two reasons: the only U-18 matches that are usually hosted at the Amex are FA Youth Cup matches, and it is unheard of for a Premier League referee to take charge of an U-18 game. So it would appear that the VAR was trialed in that game.

I wonder if other clubs have been used for such trials, and whether this U-18 Amex trial was instrumental in the Albion/Palace FA Cup match being selected now as the first competitive fixture to use the technology?

 

[Dougie]

Zahahaha won't be playing then.

Oh he will and hopefully he will start getting some decisions.

 

[Ernest]

I bet when it comes to a decision he is watching Eastenders or Coronation St

 

[Easy 10]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/how-...-to-video-review-in/4w4m0twmpg3j11tmx1waaehdz

Only four match-changing decisions can trigger a video review: goals, penalties, straight red cards and cases of mistaken identity. That means any play in which the referee makes a decision (a call or non-call) related to those areas is eligible for review.

It's worth noting that these match-changing plays are simply the entry point for a review. Once a play is under review, the referee has the discretion to adjust any call made during that sequence.

Was a foul or handball committed by an attacker in the buildup to a goal? Was a penalty incorrectly awarded? Was the attacker who drew a penalty offside, therefore negating the chance that led to the call? All of these are plays that fall within the jurisdiction of VAR.

While yellow card decisions cannot prompt the use of VAR, the referee can use the system to hand out cautions once a review is underway for another reason. If a penalty was incorrectly awarded because a player dived, for example, the call can be reversed and the attacker booked. The referee also could review a potential missed red card but decide to only give a yellow.

Although disallowing a goal via VAR is a simple enough process, awarding a goal that was incorrectly called back is trickier. If a strike is disallowed because of a foul, VAR can be used to correctly give that goal — provided the whistle came after the ball went in the net. The same logic applies to offside, even if the assistant referee's flag was already up when the ball went in.

"Players must remember that they have to play to the whistle," Webb said, "and not the flag."

In addition to penalty decisions, VAR also can intervene on the spot kick itself. Should a goalkeeper step off his line early or a player commit encroachment, video review can be used. But VAR will only step in if the offense makes a difference, such as an encroaching attacker scoring off a rebound. If a player enters the penalty area early but the goal is scored, VAR will not be utilized because the offense was inconsequential.

Another area where VAR is not used: the execution of a restart. If a team takes a quick free kick from the wrong spot or does so while the ball is still rolling, that play is not eligible for review — even if it leads to a goal or penalty.

How does a VAR review work?

The video assistant referee is obliged to conduct a "check" on every play involving one of the aforementioned match-changing decisions. The vast majority of these checks happen behind the scenes, with the referee, players and fans none the wiser.

"We continuously check all of these situations," Webb said. "Just because you don't see anything on the field doesn't mean things aren't being checked."

Should the VAR detect an obvious error, he will communicate that to the referee's earpiece and recommend a formal "review." In most cases, the referee will accept the recommendation and stop play by using his hands to draw the outline of a TV-like rectangle.

If the call is a factual matter, such as offside or out of bounds, the referee can take the VAR's advice via the earpiece and immediately change the call. But with subjective decisions, such as penalties and red cards, the referee typically will take a look at the pitch-side monitor. Ultimately, the referee on the field has the final decision.

The restart following a review often will be obvious, but it could be tricky in some cases. Should a penalty be awarded and then reversed, for example, the restart will be a dropped ball at the spot of the incorrect call. If a goal is awarded but it's determined via VAR that the ball didn't fully cross the line, the restart will be a dropped ball at the top of the 6-yard box.

How far back can VAR go?

When evaluating a game-changing decision, any call made in the "attacking phase of play" can be reviewed. Defined by Webb, that typically is when "a team moves toward the opponent's penalty area with some purpose."

If there is a stoppage and restart following a match-changing decision, the window of opportunity to use VAR is closed. That's why a referee will occasionally hold play at a restart, signaling to players by putting a finger to his earpiece, as he waits for a check to be completed. But there is an exception to this rule: a red card for violent conduct can be reviewed at any time, even if play has since stopped and restarted.

Should a team score off a free kick or corner kick that was incorrectly awarded, VAR cannot be used. At the time the set piece was given, it was not yet a goal — it was simply a restart, and therefore not one of the four eligible match-changing decisions.

When multiple game-changing decisions occur in the same sequence, the earliest call overrules everything that follows. So if a team is incorrectly denied a penalty before immediately conceding a counterattack goal at the other end, that tally is waved off and the penalty awarded.

Once again, there's an exception here for violent conduct. Even if a call is reversed, any red card for serious foul play that occurred in the aftermath will still stand. Otherwise, a player could see an obvious error from the referee, assume the entire play will be negated by VAR and find himself with free reign to commit violent fouls.

How is a review conducted?

Three key people are in the room for VAR: the video assistant referee, an assistant video assistant referee and a system operator.

In MLS, the VAR will have access to every angle the match broadcaster provides. While IFAB, the international governing body in charge of the Laws of the Game, requires a minimum of five angles for video review, MLS will have at least eight for every match.

To start a "check," the VAR will press a large red button that prompts a stopwatch on his monitor. At this point, the referee has not been contacted — it's simply a visual cue for the VAR. Although the VAR has the ability to choose angles, zoom in, slow down the footage or prompt picture-in-picture (a key function for offside decisions), that duty is largely left to the operator.

Meanwhile, the assistant (or AVAR) keeps an eye on the live match feed. Should another game-changing decision occur while the VAR is still evaluating a previous call, the AVAR has a green button he will press to signal for another check.

The AVAR also will use the messaging system Slack to communicate with the broadcasters, media, public address announcer and video board operator. All parties will be informed if a formal "review" is started, with an explanation of the outcome later provided. And the decisive camera angle will be sent to the broadcasters and video board operator.

"We actually physically show them which angles we used, whether we zoomed in on things — it's a fully transparent process," said James Japhet, a Hawk-Eye executive who guided reporters through the VAR technology at Toyota Park on Tuesday. "We're not trying to use smoke and mirrors. We actually want people to see why a decision has been made."

Will refs use VAR as a safety net?

It's natural to think officials will be more inclined to let play continue on borderline decisions, knowing they have VAR as a fallback plan. But Webb emphasized that referees have been told to continue as normal.

"Will the assistants be more tempted to keep the flag down [on offside decisions] because they know they've got the safety net of VAR?" Webb said. "Well we're saying to them, 'Don't do that. If you've got doubt, give the benefit of the doubt to the attack, but don't change the basic way the game is being officiated from your side.'"

The only instruction given to referees on this matter relates to the timing of a whistle. Because a goal cannot be reviewed if the ball goes in the net after a whistle, referees have been told to hold off on blowing a play dead for offside or a foul until they see if an immediate shot goes in.

But that idea just applies to bang-bang plays, in which the referee would only hold his whistle for a second or two. If a player is flagged for offside 40 yards from goal, for example, the referee will blow the play dead as usual.

In other words....eees complicated !

 

[loco61]

strange decision this ... not a fan at all ... not yet. it has been introduced here in The Bundesliga this season with many teething problems and at times chaotic scenes, as all involved have got used to the rules and how to use it ... i dont expect them to get this right first time round so why trial it in such a potentially explosive game. Dont tell me that under 18 game is anything like the same for the ref.... might help but not a real trial: that will be at The Amex in January?

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[Seasider78]

The issue I have is away from the televised games for this to work requires a consistent amount of cameras angles and distances at all grounds so you can present the referee with the right view to make decisions. This will not be consistent and unlike the recent introduction of goal line technology is intrusive in the flow of the game.

Not a fan at all and whilst early use will be restricted can only see this being expanded as pressure mounts to remove all bad decisions from the game.

 

[brighton terra]

They’d be well advised to keep their cameras focussed on the South Stand! ��

 

[Quinney]

How far back does the VAR look, if there's a foul in the build up to a goal, say 1 minute before the ball hits the net, does that get looked at?


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