[Albion] Brighton fans -Have we lost some Perspective? Good things to say about Brighton please!

[Stato]

I dont think you have quite caught the OP's intended vibe there.

A girlfriend of mine used to say that the key to happiness is to lower your expectations. Then she married me.

 

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

It is perfectly ok to point out the odds of winning a trophy are slight/a tough ask - we can say good stuff about the club and be positive without being positively unrealistic about where we are and who we are.

Worry not, I am merely teasing the statmeister. I just can't be bothered to add smilies.

 

[Gabbafella]

Currently in Athens with the Mrs. Walking about today and I stumble across these two beauties in two different places (thumbs up to the stickerer)
Just knowing that we played a competitive match here, and won, gave me a warm feeling inside.
I'm of the Goldstone generation so I know only too well where we've come from and I know these highs won't last forever so no form of entitlement from me, and I've yet to meet an Albion fan who comes across that way. For the most part I think we're a grounded bunch. Maybe the younger generation who've only known premier league football will have a different outlook, but I'm extremely grateful for everything we are as a club.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I'm not sure whether people realise the scale of the ask for a side outside of the monied six to win a major trophy.

One of the last ten domestic major trophies have been won by a team that wasn't involved in the Super League treachery: Leicester's FA Cup in 2021. (that's a 10% chance, or a 0.71% chance each if its split between 14 other EPL teams)
Leciester's 2016 League win and Wigan's FA Cup in 2013 mean that only three of the 37 trophies in the last ten years have been won by someone from outside that group. (8.11%)
Going back to the first EPL season a total of 13 trophies of a possible 94 have been won by one of the other 86 in the league. (13.83%).

If you assume that every trophy is going to be won by an EPL side, (Nobody from outside that division has won one in the 32 years of the EPL era), that 13.83% chance is split between 14 teams, giving everybody who isn't Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and (oh go on then,) Tottenham a less than one percent chance of winning a major domestic trophy each season.

With three of those lot fighting for this season's title, unless Coventry somehow win the FA Cup, those numbers are going to get even worse.

Assuming this year's EPL winners as City, Arsenal or Liverpool the last 32 season's results will suggest that there is a 6.25% chance of a team from outside the monied six winning the EPL. Splitting this equally between the other 14 in the division gives a 0.446% chance of any of us mortals winning the league.

As Everton, Wigan, Portsmouth and Leicester have managed it, for the FA Cup - the chances of a league team not from the plotters winning that is doubled to 12.5%, but as there are 86 league teams to split this chance between, an even chance for all would be 0.145%. Ignoring the teams from outside the top level (West Ham in 1980 were the last team to do it) would still mean a 0.89% chance for each of the 14.

In the League Cup, wins for Aston Villa (2), Leicester (2), Blackburn, Middlesbro, Birmingham & Swansea from 32 seasons suggest chances are better at 25% (0.29% for each entrant, or 1.78% for each EPL club as nobody from outside the top tier has won it since Wednesday in 1991), but given that six of those eight wins were in the first twelve seasons, recent years suggest a harder task. In fact one of those six teams has won the trophy in every one of the last ten years.

In short, it's quite a big ask.

And there I was quite happily going about my day smiling that the sun was shining, it feels warmish and inflation had come down a bit and then I read this! Thanks for that!

 

[Justice]

I agree with your principle of course, as do many others. I can't on this occasion however, agree with your opinion on why we lost so badly in Rome........but that's more than OK by me. As you say, it's a football forum to express many views, despite efforts by some to crush it being so.

Indeed, we will always lose games it’s football. Let people vent frustration without the patronising well remember that day in league 2 when York beat us 3-0.
Barber does it to some extent on TS we have to remember we played at Withdean yes Paul and you probably paid no attention to B&HA when we did.
If there was no billionaire TB we would probably still have no stadium and kicking around the lower leagues it’s all relative.
We will lose games and that’s fine but to keep reverting back 30 years when we do to use as some kind of excuse as to why fans can’t be pissed off winds me up tbh.

 

[Zeberdi]

Indeed, we will always lose games it’s football. Let people vent frustration without the patronising well remember that day in league 2 when York beat us 3-0.
Barber does it to some extent on TS we have to remember we played at Withdean yes Paul and you probably paid no attention to B&HA when we did.
If there was no billionaire TB we would probably still have no stadium and kicking around the lower leagues it’s all relative.
We will lose games and that’s fine but to keep reverting back 30 years when we do to use as some kind of excuse as to why fans can’t be pissed off winds me up tbh.

I can’t see any one on this thread either trying to silence criticism or having a go at people post-match venting or anyone being patronising - I see only people posting positive things they feel about Brighton (which was the purpose of the thread.

Can we please have just one thread that lets people voice their positive experiences please without others jumping on them and being all paranoid and sensitive that it is a criticism - if people appreciate where we are now in the context of where we have come from, then they have a right to feel that way - I certainly do and can not believe where we are now compared to when I would pay a shilling to go through the turnstiles at the Goldstone 55 years ago to stand in the pouring rain watching Division 3 football and 22 men scrabble around in a mud bath. That doesn’t mean to say some criticism as made clear in the OP, is justified but this is very clearly not the thread for it.

If this thread winds you up so much, I suggest you put it on ignore.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I don’t think we’ve lost perspective. There will always be those who want better and look to the future, and those who are content with where we are by comparing to where we were.

There may even be individuals who cross both boundaries.

Either way I think it’s important to live in the moment and reflect on what we’re currently doing. This is a football forum after all. And it makes sense to debate how things are now, not how they were 30 years ago, given the medium.

So no, I don’t think most have lost perspective. Just some drive to want more improvement and others are more contented by the status quo.

 

[Weststander]

Venting after a non-win is natural and imho therapeutic. Folk doing it are no lesser supporters.

With the theme of this thread in mind, this will cheer up anyone outside of gloomy Norwood. Up there with the 2017 win over Wigan imho.

 

[albionalba]

From the Dundee Courier today

View attachment 179015

 

[Justice]

I can’t see any one on this thread either trying to silence criticism or having a go at people post-match venting or anyone being patronising - I see only people posting positive things they feel about Brighton (which was the purpose of the thread.

Can we please have just one thread that lets people voice their positive experiences please without others jumping on them and being all paranoid and sensitive that it is a criticism - if people appreciate where we are now in the context of where we have come from, then they have a right to feel that way - I certainly do and can not believe where we are now compared to when I would pay a shilling to go through the turnstiles at the Goldstone 55 years ago to stand in the pouring rain watching Division 3 football and 22 men scrabble around in a mud bath. That doesn’t mean to say some criticism as made clear in the OP, is justified but this is very clearly not the thread for it.

If this thread winds you up so much, I suggest you put it on ignore.

This thread doesn’t wind me up I didn’t say it did. I’m allowed to be gutted, pissed off and all the other raw emotions football gives you after a bad defeat and our European adventure over.

What I don’t get is half an hour after the final whistle is why someone would post a let’s be happy clappy and super positive after a really crap night of football. You know fans are hurting let them get over it before ramming super fandom down their throats.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Nothing is being rammed anywhere that is not of your choosing. As advised, just ignore.

 

[Zeberdi]

This thread doesn’t wind me up I didn’t say it did. I’m allowed to be gutted, pissed off and all the other raw emotions football gives you after a bad defeat and our European adventure over.

What I don’t get is half an hour after the final whistle is why someone would post a let’s be happy clappy and super positive after a really crap night of football. You know fans are hurting let them get over it before ramming super fandom down their throats.

Seriously, what is your beef!?

No one is saying you are not allowed to be gutted or whatever after a ‘bad defeat’ or disappointed that we are out of Europe so stop trying to twist this thread into something it is not.

This thread was started before our defeat in Rome and was intended to be a positive contribution in a mixture of a number of ongoing threads that had been on the boards for weeks and months that had been overly negative. ( As was made abundantly clear in the OP and subsequent posts).

It’s absolutely ridiculous to accuse someone of ‘ramming super fandom down their throats’ because a thread asks for some comments that ‘appreciate’ the Club and highlight what is going right. This was purely about getting some perspective in what at the time (not instead of but together with) was a plethora of threads (started before Roma) explicitly stating that RDZ was leaving, it was all RDZ‘s fault we are so low down in the league/crashed out of Europe, that RDZ had fallen out with the Club and has ‘given up trying’, that TB was at fault for not investing in the Club more than he already has, that certain young players grappling with coming back from longterm injuries were ‘awful’, that we would be lucky to reach a top 10 finish, that our European campaign was hopeless etc etc - these were all threads that were running on the top of the boards, they were not post-match rants but had been running for days even weeks.

This is one thread was started in contrast to that overall feeling of gloom, specifically aimed for a more of positive outlook and to acknowledge what we are doing right. It is bizarre that a minority of fans posting here have taken umbrage with that or have chosen to take it as a personal attack.

If you find that so difficult to say what we are doing right or what you like about where we are right now, then ignore the thread as suggested above (as others have ignored the RDZ out type of threads) - people writing positive comments are NOT attacking you or preventing you from having anti-match rants so stop polarising this into an ‘us and them’ argument and trying to make it sound as if they are please.

Edit Another positive that I would like to add at risk of pissing you off even more, is that it is amazing we have so many players now capped for their Country and we can now add Moder to that list as he gets called up for Poland.

 

[Brian Fantana]

I think where I am is that our fanbase, like pretty much every other club's, ebbs and flows. Having a thread specific to adding positive points implies that the majority of the other stuff being posted in negative, and therefore there needs to be a counter-balance in place. It is something manufactured that doesn't need to be there, IMO. Positive and negative threads will come and go.

 

[Zeberdi]

I think where I am is that our fanbase, like pretty much every other club's, ebbs and flows. Having a thread specific to adding positive points implies that the majority of the other stuff being posted in negative, and therefore there needs to be a counter-balance in place. It is something manufactured that doesn't need to be there, IMO. Positive and negative threads will come and go.

Of all the banal and frankly pointless threads on NSC and you pick a thread for positive feedback about where we are as a team to say ‘it doesn’t need to be there’ . This is the counterbalance that I felt I needed after me feeling brought down by the level of negativity since January - I know others were feeling the same at the time which is why I started this thread.

However, it does not imply the majority of other stuff being posted in the Albion forum is all negative at all or even when it is, unjustified at times. I’ve shared many of those concerns ( which is why I asked if ‘we’ are losing perspective?) You are reading a critical meaning into it which simply isn’t there and yes, positive and negative threads will ‘come and go’ as this one will because the context has changed and there are less negative threads being started now than when there were a few months ago..

Thank you everyone for posting some great and uplifting comments - I for one have found it really uplifting - it provided some much needed balance imo - I was beginning to think fans on NSC had lost faith in where we are going and how we are getting there because sometimes positive things often remain unsaid- it is much easier IMO to criticise and complain about things..

Im not going to defend the thread further or apologise for starting it as it has run its course and served purpose afaic.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Of all the banal and frankly pointless threads on NSC and you pick a thread for positive feedback about where we are as a team to say ‘it doesn’t need to be there’ . This is the counterbalance that I felt I needed after me feeling brought down by the level of negativity since January - I know others were feeling the same at the time which is why I started this thread.

However, it does not imply the majority of other stuff being posted in the Albion forum is all negative at all or even when it is, unjustified at times. I’ve shared many of those concerns ( which is why I asked if ‘we’ are losing perspective?) You are reading a critical meaning into it which simply isn’t there and yes, positive and negative threads will ‘come and go’ as this one will because the context has changed and there are less negative threads being started now than when there were a few months ago..

Thank you everyone for posting some great and uplifting comments - I for one have found it really uplifting - it provided some much needed balance imo - I was beginning to think fans on NSC had lost faith in where we are going and how we are getting there because sometimes positive things often remain unsaid- it is much easier IMO to criticise and complain about things..

Im not going to defend the thread further or apologise for starting it as it has run its course and served purpose afaic.

Are you offering an olive branch though?

 

[Nicks]

I've seen my team play in an FA CUP Final twice ( Replay)
I've seen them on their greatest day ever at Hereford away.
I've seen them at The Goldstone, Priestfield, Withdean and now the Amex and I've shared these grounds with my two sons.
Myself and my lads have seen them play all of the top so called teams on their own patches and come away with a result.
We have seen them play in places that we could only dream about in 97 , Marseille, Amsterdam, Athens and Rome.
I don't really know how it can get any better for me ,( apart from winning at Wembley for once and winning the Premier League and Champions League)
We have come along way in my lifetime of following this club for 50 years and even my lads in their 27 years of watching us from the last games at The Goldstone to Priestfield ( where this photo was taken) to where we are now.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'm not sure whether people realise the scale of the ask for a side outside of the monied six to win a major trophy.

One of the last ten domestic major trophies have been won by a team that wasn't involved in the Super League treachery: Leicester's FA Cup in 2021. (that's a 10% chance, or a 0.71% chance each if its split between 14 other EPL teams)
Leciester's 2016 League win and Wigan's FA Cup in 2013 mean that only three of the 37 trophies in the last ten years have been won by someone from outside that group. (8.11%)
Going back to the first EPL season a total of 13 trophies of a possible 94 have been won by one of the other 86 in the league. (13.83%).

If you assume that every trophy is going to be won by an EPL side, (Nobody from outside that division has won one in the 32 years of the EPL era), that 13.83% chance is split between 14 teams, giving everybody who isn't Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and (oh go on then,) Tottenham a less than one percent chance of winning a major domestic trophy each season.

With three of those lot fighting for this season's title, unless Coventry somehow win the FA Cup, those numbers are going to get even worse.

Assuming this year's EPL winners as City, Arsenal or Liverpool the last 32 season's results will suggest that there is a 6.25% chance of a team from outside the monied six winning the EPL. Splitting this equally between the other 14 in the division gives a 0.446% chance of any of us mortals winning the league.

As Everton, Wigan, Portsmouth and Leicester have managed it, for the FA Cup - the chances of a league team not from the plotters winning that is doubled to 12.5%, but as there are 86 league teams to split this chance between, an even chance for all would be 0.145%. Ignoring the teams from outside the top level (West Ham in 1980 were the last team to do it) would still mean a 0.89% chance for each of the 14.

In the League Cup, wins for Aston Villa (2), Leicester (2), Blackburn, Middlesbro, Birmingham & Swansea from 32 seasons suggest chances are better at 25% (0.29% for each entrant, or 1.78% for each EPL club as nobody from outside the top tier has won it since Wednesday in 1991), but given that six of those eight wins were in the first twelve seasons, recent years suggest a harder task. In fact one of those six teams has won the trophy in every one of the last ten years.

In short, it's quite a big ask.

Very interesting and detailed . But I said REACH a major trophy final NOT win it.

That is why the penalty shoot out defeat to United in the FA Cup semi final last year was so disappointing for me. Had we won I had no illusions about us beating M City in the final.

Your good fortune certainly has to line up for sides like us to actually win something.

 

[tstanbur]

Seriously, what is your beef!?

No one is saying you are not allowed to be gutted or whatever after a ‘bad defeat’ or disappointed that we are out of Europe so stop trying to twist this thread into something it is not.

This thread was started before our defeat in Rome and was intended to be a positive contribution in a mixture of a number of ongoing threads that had been on the boards for weeks and months that had been overly negative. ( As was made abundantly clear in the OP and subsequent posts).

It’s absolutely ridiculous to accuse someone of ‘ramming super fandom down their throats’ because a thread asks for some comments that ‘appreciate’ the Club and highlight what is going right. This was purely about getting some perspective in what at the time (not instead of but together with) was a plethora of threads (started before Roma) explicitly stating that RDZ was leaving, it was all RDZ‘s fault we are so low down in the league/crashed out of Europe, that RDZ had fallen out with the Club and has ‘given up trying’, that TB was at fault for not investing in the Club more than he already has, that certain young players grappling with coming back from longterm injuries were ‘awful’, that we would be lucky to reach a top 10 finish, that our European campaign was hopeless etc etc - these were all threads that were running on the top of the boards, they were not post-match rants but had been running for days even weeks.

This is one thread was started in contrast to that overall feeling of gloom, specifically aimed for a more of positive outlook and to acknowledge what we are doing right. It is bizarre that a minority of fans posting here have taken umbrage with that or have chosen to take it as a personal attack.

If you find that so difficult to say what we are doing right or what you like about where we are right now, then ignore the thread as suggested above (as others have ignored the RDZ out type of threads) - people writing positive comments are NOT attacking you or preventing you from having anti-match rants so stop polarising this into an ‘us and them’ argument and trying to make it sound as if they are please.

Edit Another positive that I would like to add at risk of pissing you off even more, is that it is amazing we have so many players now capped for their Country and we can now add Moder to that list as he gets called up for Poland.

Moder has played 20 times for Poland, he was a regular starter before his injury

 

[Stato]

Very interesting and detailed . But I said REACH a major trophy final NOT win it.

That is why the penalty shoot out defeat to United in the FA Cup semi final last year was so disappointing for me. Had we won I had no illusions about us beating M City in the final.

Your good fortune certainly has to line up for sides like us to actually win something.

Fair enough and I shared your pain on the shoot out for those reasons. Getting to a final is not much easier these days. In the big two domestic cups, only 8 of the last 40 finalists have been from outside the monied 6. A 12.5% chance split between 14 of us: 0.89%. Much less if you look outside the EPL too.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I was talking to another fan of long standing yesterday and we agreed that we felt blessed to have lived long enough to see the club where it is now. We are on course for one of the three best finishes in our history, possibly even the second-best, and there is an outside chance (but no more than that, looking at the fixture list) of qualifying for Europe for the second successive season. That is just incredible, people!