[News] Brianna Ghey murder.

[Insel affe]

I will hold my hand up and admit I'd quite like to see who these little shits are, and satisfy my morbid curiosity.

along with everyone else, it is only natural.

But I don't think the downsides would justify this. I see no other reason to have them named other than for me to gawp at their photos and speculate about their families. And I would, of course, be interested in doing that. But it is not my right.

All naming them will do is add fuel to peoples preconceived ideas about so many things, oh they are immigrants, oh they are from broken homes, oh they are middle class kids, what is wrong with society, oh the they are spoilt brats who have no boundaries, oh they are suffering from mental health issues, and the local authority should have done more, been better funded, all naming them will do, is fit one or multiple narratives to be exploited for folks own ends and to fit an agenda or cause.

I do not care for their names, they will be locked up, that is good enough for me as long as those that need to take action on the whys and could we improve on a given situation take action and lessons are learnt.

R.I.P Brianna Ghey x

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

along with everyone else, it is only natural.

All naming them will do is add fuel to peoples preconceived ideas about so many things, oh they are immigrants, oh they are from broken homes, oh they are middle class kids, what is wrong with society, oh the they are spoilt brats who have no boundaries, oh they are suffering from mental health issues, and the local authority should have done more, been better funded, all naming them will do, is fit one or multiple narratives to be exploited for folks own ends and to fit an agenda or cause.

I do not care for their names, they will be locked up, that is good enough for me as long as those that need to take action on the whys and could we improve on a given situation take action and lessons are learnt.

R.I.P Brianna Ghey x

Well said.

 

[jackalbion]

I don´t live in the UK but from reading and watching the news, I wasn´t sure how safe even Brighton was any more.
I went to the Marseille game at the Amex and stayed in a hotel in Western road. I left nearly all my valuables in my room and took my phone and one debit card and my ID card from Malta just in case. I kept my phone in an inside pocket too.
Nothing happened ! But I would be very worried walking around town very late at night.

I can only imagine how you would've dealt with the away game.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Reporting restrictions will be lifted after sentencing on 2 February 2024, when the killers names' will be given.

Date Brianna Ghey's killers Girl X and Boy Y will be named

Teenagers were found guilty of murdering 16-year-old who was stabbed 28 times in park

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[highflyer]

Really?

Homicide rate in Europe 2021, by country​

Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 21, 2023
In Europe, the Baltic countries of Latvia and Lithuania had the highest homicide rates in 2021. Of these, Latvia had the highest rate, reaching almost 5.2 intentional homicides per 100,000 inhabitants. Meanwhile, the lowest homicide rate was found in Malta, amounting to only 0.39 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.

All good. Just as long as you are not an investigative journalist, looking in the links between govermment, organized crime and the role of Malta as a global secrecy jurisdiction and tax haven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_Caruana_Galizia

It's all relative I guess, what 'safe' looks like.

Back on topic, I agree that we don't need the names of the killers. What will it add? Beyond more sales for the scummy media. The people that need to know, know.

 

[rippleman]

I don't usually reply to my own posts. On radio 5 now a journalist is making the case for naming the killers

"In this country we have open justice"
"Normally such (young) killers should not be named but this is such an exceptional case"

He was asked what value will be provided (to society) by naming them.

He rather pompously repeated himself, as if that was justification in itself.

A caller now is proposing they be named and given a whole life sentence.

Why should they be named, he is asked

"It would make it more tangible". He then added something about if they were released (on a whole life sentence?) the public would know who they are and if they offended again (I stopped listening at that point. Utter illogical old tosh).

I remain convinced that the naming of them is driven by curiosity and prurience. Separately it will preclude any rehabilitation without very expensive identity changes. The latter had to be done with the Bulger killers, with mixed results (one of the boys has never reoffended, the other has). In neither case has their naming done anything other than give to the public a name and face to hate.

I will hold my hand up and admit I'd quite like to see who these little shits are, and satisfy my morbid curiosity. But I don't think the downsides would justify this. I see no other reason to have them named other than for me to gawp at their photos and speculate about their families. And I would, of course, be interested in doing that. But it is not my right.

I'm not sure I would concur.

Consider the bastards that tortured and killed Jamie Bulger. One of them has been recalled to prison twice. Once for accessing child pornography IIRC. If they let him out again, if they haven't already, he could be moved next door to your young grandchildren (if you have them) and you wouldn't have a clue. Would you want a convicted child torturer and murderer moving in next door to your grandkids? Bloody sure I wouldn't.

Every individual convicted of murder, serious assault or rape should be named. Everybody should know who they are and where they are living. Only that way can we do everything we can to protect our kids and grandkids.

Someone will no doubt be screaming about murderers "rights". Tough titty if they get grief and hassle.

The law should not offer any protection to those who take the lives of others in such a brutal, sadistic way.

 

[rippleman]

along with everyone else, it is only natural.

All naming them will do is add fuel to peoples preconceived ideas about so many things, oh they are immigrants, oh they are from broken homes, oh they are middle class kids, what is wrong with society, oh the they are spoilt brats who have no boundaries, oh they are suffering from mental health issues, and the local authority should have done more, been better funded, all naming them will do, is fit one or multiple narratives to be exploited for folks own ends and to fit an agenda or cause.

I do not care for their names, they will be locked up, that is good enough for me as long as those that need to take action on the whys and could we improve on a given situation take action and lessons are learnt.

R.I.P Brianna Ghey x

Yes. Locked up until the parole board decides they are "safe" to be let out again.

Lawrence Bierton: Killer guilty of third murder will never be released

Lawrence Bierton battered neighbour Pauline Quinn to death with a coffee table while out on licence.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[maltaseagull]

All good. Just as long as you are not an investigative journalist, looking in the links between govermment, organized crime and the role of Malta as a global secrecy jurisdiction and tax haven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_Caruana_Galizia

It's all relative I guess, what 'safe' looks like.

Back on topic, I agree that we don't need the names of the killers. What will it add? Beyond more sales for the scummy media. The people that need to know, know.

All good. Just as long as you are not an investigative journalist, looking in the links between govermment, organized crime and the role of Malta as a global secrecy jurisdiction and tax haven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_Caruana_Galizia

It's all relative I guess, what 'safe' looks like.

Back on topic, I agree that we don't need the names of the killers. What will it add? Beyond more sales for the scummy media. The people that need to know, know.

Not sure what the link has to do with my post but whatever.
Malta has got major issues with corruption but the streets are safe.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not sure I would concur.

Consider the bastards that tortured and killed Jamie Bulger. One of them has been recalled to prison twice. Once for accessing child pornography IIRC. If they let him out again, if they haven't already, he could be moved next door to your young grandchildren (if you have them) and you wouldn't have a clue. Would you want a convicted child torturer and murderer moving in next door to your grandkids? Bloody sure I wouldn't.

Every individual convicted of murder, serious assault or rape should be named. Everybody should know who they are and where they are living. Only that way can we do everything we can to protect our kids and grandkids.

Someone will no doubt be screaming about murderers "rights". Tough titty if they get grief and hassle.

The law should not offer any protection to those who take the lives of others in such a brutal, sadistic way.

This post has been edited due to increasing annoyance:

Well, the judge has said 'name them'.

And so be it.

He is hoping that because the dead girl's mother has sympathy with the parents of the killers, this will reduce the risk of the parents being persecuted.

I suppose that if it transpires the parents seem the sort of people we feel comfortable 'blaming' then the nation can feel relaxed about any persecution.

I'm not comfortable with this 'will of the people and their right to know' business. I doubt there is anything here for any of us to learn.

As for the Bulger killers, whether the likelihood of them reoffending or not was facilitated or lessened by their names being out there is impossible to tell. The both had anonymity and one has reoffended. Perhaps he should not have been released. Perhaps if we all knew the real identity of the other boy, instead of keeping his head down and living a useful life, he may well have killed himself, or been killed.

I don't like your sneer about murderers' rights. Nobody is talking about that on this thread, let alone "screaming", and please don't direct me to some obscure web site. However we all have some rights. In law we bang people up, then release them when the sentence is done. We offer little rehabilitation. And when released they are dependent on charity to reassemble their lives. We do not sanction torture in jail, and persecution after release. There is a massive gap between you imaginary 'murderers' rights' and your apparent desire to keep all released prisoners under constant watch by 'vigilant' members of the public.

And also, if people remain a danger they should not be released. You can't declare someone well, fit to be released, then chase them around with pointed sticks. Keep them inside if they remain a danger.

And if you think the only thing that keeps your kids safe is vigilantism, I'm sorry for you. Rule of law.

And....unless you have transgender kids there is a fair chance yours will be forever safe from this pair of freaks.

By the way the 'bastards' to who you refer were 11 years old, living the sort of life that would have pushed many of us into ending theirs, were our live similar. Go and read up on them, if you feel like ruining your Christmas.

On balance, releasing the names seems like populism to me, done for no good reason than po-face purience.

I will of course be all over it in February, with naked and undisguised morbid curiosity. Who won't be?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

This post has been edited due to increasing annoyance:

Well, the judge has said 'name them'.

And so be it.

He is hoping that because the dead girl's mother has sympathy with the parents of the killers, this will reduce the risk of the parents being persecuted.

I suppose that if it transpires the parents seem the sort of people we feel comfortable 'blaming' then the nation can feel relaxed about any persecution.

I'm not comfortable with this 'will of the people and their right to know' business. I doubt there is anything here for any of us to learn.

As for the Bulger killers, whether the likelihood of them reoffending or not was facilitated or lessened by their names being out there is impossible to tell. The both had anonymity and one has reoffended. Perhaps he should not have been released. Perhaps if we all knew the real identity of the other boy, instead of keeping his head down and living a useful life, he may well have killed himself, or been killed.

I don't like your sneer about murderers' rights. Nobody is talking about that on this thread, let alone "screaming", and please don't direct me to some obscure web site. However we all have some rights. In law we bang people up, then release them when the sentence is done. We offer little rehabilitation. And when released they are dependent on charity to reassemble their lives. We do not sanction torture in jail, and persecution after release. There is a massive gap between you imaginary 'murderers' rights' and your apparent desire to keep all released prisoners under constant watch by 'vigilant' members of the public.

And also, if people remain a danger they should not be released. You can't declare someone well, fit to be released, then chase them around with pointed sticks. Keep them inside if they remain a danger.

And if you think the only thing that keeps your kids safe is vigilantism, I'm sorry for you. Rule of law.

And....unless you have transgender kids there is a fair chance yours will be forever safe from this pair of freaks.

By the way the 'bastards' to who you refer were 11 years old, living the sort of life that would have pushed many of us into ending theirs, were our live similar. Go and read up on them, if you feel like ruining your Christmas.

On balance, releasing the names seems like populism to me, done for no good reason than po-face purience.

I will of course be all over it in February, with naked and undisguised morbid curiosity. Who won't be?

I’ve shielded myself from the majority of the reporting of this case, but is that actually the case - that the victim was specifically chosen because they were transgender? I read that they were fascinated with violence and torture, and had drawn up a ‘kill list’ of 5 potential victims, from which they eventually made their horrible choice. Presumably those other 4 kids were not trans?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ve shielded myself from the majority of the reporting of this case, but is that actually the case - that the victim was specifically chosen because they were transgender? I read that they were fascinated with violence and torture, and had drawn up a ‘kill list’ of 5 potential victims, from which they eventually made their horrible choice. Presumably those other 4 kids were not trans?

I stand to be corrected. The gender of the victim may well have been irrelevant, and just a coincidence.

Not that it matters.

The victim was not random though, and if they had a list then it would have had to be of people known to them.

I made my comment primarily to rebut a suggestion made by someone that it is getting dangerous for us all, out there, especially late at night, owing to random attacks. It isn't.

 

[jcdenton08]

I stand to be corrected. The gender of the victim may well have been irrelevant, and just a coincidence.

Not that it matters.

The victim was not random though, and if they had a list then it would have had to be of people known to them.

I made my comment primarily to rebut a suggestion made by someone that it is getting dangerous for us all, out there, especially late at night, owing to random attacks. It isn't.

The police have said in this case there is no evidence that the victim was targeted for any other reason than the female murderer saying she was “obsessed” with the victim. None of the other four people were minorities and the murderers were friends with the victim. It’s a tragedy, but it doesn’t appear to be a “hate crime”, at least in the police and CPS’s view, but rather a thrill killing by two people with very evil intentions.

 

[DJ NOBO]

I’ve shielded myself from the majority of the reporting of this case, but is that actually the case - that the victim was specifically chosen because they were transgender? I read that they were fascinated with violence and torture, and had drawn up a ‘kill list’ of 5 potential victims, from which they eventually made their horrible choice. Presumably those other 4 kids were not trans?

Killer A didn’t appear to hate Brianna (from what I read), she just became obsessed with the prospect of watching someone die.
Killer B came across as her stooge.
It‘s one thing coming up with such an horrific plan. It’s another to actually go through it.
I don’t believe the killers should ever be freed. They showed a level of callousness that is beyond rehabilitation.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Just what is driving certain people to commit crimes like this, what is it stabbed 28 times there's some hatred there. Thoughts with the family.

No hatred. She was chosen from a shortlist of four. A handwritten plan. Killed for kicks by a couple of kids who lack the vital gene to be decent human beings. No remorse.

 

[Baldseagull]

Really?

Homicide rate in Europe 2021, by country​

Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 21, 2023
In Europe, the Baltic countries of Latvia and Lithuania had the highest homicide rates in 2021. Of these, Latvia had the highest rate, reaching almost 5.2 intentional homicides per 100,000 inhabitants. Meanwhile, the lowest homicide rate was found in Malta, amounting to only 0.39 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.

I saw this, it seems yours is more up to date, but who knows, this year Malta could be above the UK again.

Murder Rate by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

This has Malta above the UK in 2 out of 4 years

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/MLT/malta/murder-homicide-rate#:~:text=Malta%20murder%2Fhomicide%20rate%20for,a%202.46%25%20decline%20from%202017.

 

[maltaseagull]

I saw this, it seems yours is more up to date, but who knows, this year Malta could be above the UK again.

Murder Rate by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

This has Malta above the UK in 2 out of 4 years

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/MLT/malta/murder-homicide-rate#:~:text=Malta%20murder%2Fhomicide%20rate%20for,a%202.46%25%20decline%20from%202017.

Yawn.

 

[carlzeiss]

I’ve shielded myself from the majority of the reporting of this case, but is that actually the case - that the victim was specifically chosen because they were transgender? I read that they were fascinated with violence and torture, and had drawn up a ‘kill list’ of 5 potential victims, from which they eventually made their horrible choice. Presumably those other 4 kids were not trans?

Targeted due to transphobia created by the Tory government according to this Labour MP

 

[Curious Orange]

A child has been murdered, to try make a political issue out of that when it is clear from the trial that transphobia had nothing to do with it is crass to say the least.

 

[GT49er]

I accept and agree with all the valid reasons that have been put forward for not naming the shitbags, and of course we can't be doing with vigilante justice ........... but a part of the un-reconstructed pre-21st. century PC me still keeps thinking that it would be good if once they are released they spent every miserable day of the rest of their miserable lives looking over their shoulders!

 

[Wardy's twin]

The two who did it appear to be somewhat exceptionally unpleasant, a toxic combo, like Hindley and Brady, egging each other on with their addiction to torture porn, among other things. Fortunately, not a reflection of 'the state of the youth of today'. Thoughts with all three families (as noted by the mother of the victim).

Absolutely spot on , there are areas where things are rough but what they did comes from a different dimension.