[Politics] Brexit

[daveinplzen]

When did boasting about not being able to cope with views outside your echo chamber become a thing?

Class warrior to class snowflake [emoji106]

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So, what's the view? Does it involve a list of positives that have been put on the country by the gullible?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So, what's the view? Does it involve a list of positives that have been put on the country by the gullible?

Welcome back Dave ..... been a while. Hope the EU vaccine debacle (you favoured) hasn't adversely effected you and yours [emoji106]

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[Lincoln Imp]

When did boasting about not being able to cope with views outside your echo chamber become a thing?

Class warrior to class snowflake [emoji106]

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The only trouble is that you have a bit of previous when it comes to walking away from arguments, ignoring quietly made points, going silent for a day and then returning with one of your self-defined and entirely irrelevant funnies on some other matter.

For example, when I pasted a sober blog reflecting on an aspect of the sovereignty issue earlier in the week and specifically invited your views all that came back was a couple of videos from ppf.

Del Shannon's greatest hit must have been dedicated to you.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

David Green's excellent Law & Policy Blog touches on Brexit this week. It makes some points I see as fundamental. I reproduce it here simply to add to the debate. I am sure Pastafarian, JCFG and others will have a view.


Sovereignty – why the question needs to keep on being asked of Brexit as to how any of this is worthwhile
7th February 2021

The front cover of the Observer this morning provides some indication of what the United Kingdom is doing to itself in respect of its botched endeavour of Brexit.

Tomorrow’s front page pic.twitter.com/5CD5XAaZT6

— The Observer (@ObserverUK) February 6, 2021

As Michael Gove himself could well put it: this country appears to have had enough of exports.

Elsewhere are news reports of the realisation of Northern Irish unionists that the manner of this Brexit means that there is now a trade barrier down the Irish Sea.

Even the fishermen and fisherwomen, in whose names the very last stand of this government's Brexit negotiation strategy was made, are unhappy.

Day by day, news report by news report, the true nature of Brexit is becoming apparent.

There will be deflections and misdirections from those who supported and urged through this government's approach to Brexit.

And, to the annoyance and frustration of those who opposed either Brexit in principle or this government's Brexit policy in particular, these deflections and misdirections will in good part stick.

There will be no grand 'oh gosh' moment when all those responsible for this folly will admit to it having been a folly.

But.

This does not mean that those who are watching this folly unfold should be silent.

*

For the question that needs to keep on being asked - whether one is against Brexit in principle or this government's Brexit policy in particular - is simple:

How is any of this worthwhile?

Or alternatively:

What is the point of Brexit?

This is not a complaint from principle but from practice - regardless of one's view of membership of the European Union, those responsible for the United Kingdom's post-Brexit policy are still required to justify what they are doing.

*

The answer from Brexit supporters to the question of why any of this is worthwhile seems to be one word: 'sovereignty'.

All these disruptions and all these reversals are supposed to be worth it, because of 'sovereignty'.

But, as this blog has previously averred, the United Kingdom had sovereignty all along.

That is why the United Kingdom was able to decide to leave the European Union, and that is why parliament was able to repeal the European Communities Act 1972.

Sovereignty was never lost.

And to the extent that the United Kingdom was bound by international rules and decisions, this was (and is) no different in principle to the obligations that the United Kingdom has under NATO, or the World Trade Organisation, or the United Nations.

Though curiously, many of those in favour of Brexit are at ease with our obligations in respect of those international organisation, and even boast of trading under 'WTO rules' or of the United Kingdom's permanent membership of the UN security council.

One could even say that Brexit is nothing actually to do with 'sovereignty' (with or without scare quotes) and more to do with hostility to the 'E' word, Europe.

What Brexit certainly has little to do with in practice is the supremacy of parliament - indeed under the cloak of Brexit, the United Kingdom government is seeking to legislate as much as possible by executive action.

Powers are being taken away by Whitehall from Westminster rather than from Brussels.

Even on the one topic on which the current government has struck lucky - and that was more by chance than design - it was possible under European Union law for the United Kingdom to procure the AstraZeneca vaccine on its own terms.

And, indeed at the time, the United Kingdom was still subject to European Union law under the transition arrangements.

*

No assertions - however loud - about Brexit in practice being justified by 'sovereignty' in principle add up with a moment's thought.

Not one incident of Brexit so far has shown any value of Brexit as an exercise in regaining 'sovereignty'.

And this is not so much because Brexiters are wrong to prioritise sovereignty above everything else - but because none of this is really about sovereignty in the first place.

Like some character in an ancient myth or a folklore tale, the United Kingdom has chosen to bring destruction upon itself in supposed pursuit of a thing it had already.

Just to remind you...

 

[Chicken Run]

I notice most of the usernames below I have on ignore have been quite active since the end of transition. I wonder what it is I'm actually missing out on? Could it be sensible, substantive discussion accentuating the positives of Brexit with credible explanations on how problems and nuances can be practically and proactively overcome? Or is it just inane sneering, innocuous insults (accusing someone of being a paedophile not withstanding) straw clutching, whataboutery, excitable interminable regurgitation of 3 word soundbites with no substance coupled with links to The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph, Guido Fawkes and Youtube?

On balance and looking at those usernames again, I suspect it's probably the latter. Never mind.

View attachment 132615

Not surprising though when those 'few adults' are essentially just the username formerly known as Das Reich and 5 other like-minded posters I have on ignore.

View attachment 133736

Ahhh ManOFSussex, this is the man who spends most of him NSC time on the Infinite juke box and rarely posts in the Brexit thread but on the occasions he does like a broken record he bores us with his tired old ignore list story[emoji23]






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[JC Footy Genius]

The only trouble is that you have a bit of previous when it comes to walking away from arguments, ignoring quietly made points, going silent for a day and then returning with one of your self-defined and entirely irrelevant funnies on some other matter.

For example, when I pasted a sober blog reflecting on an aspect of the sovereignty issue earlier in the week and specifically invited your views all that came back was a couple of videos from ppf.

Del Shannon's greatest hit must have been dedicated to you.

That's hardly fair considering I have been arguing with you lot for years.over thousands of posts. It's also not my problem you lot can't move on with your lives and continually want to fight past battles. Just think how bored you would all be if I didn't post amymore [emoji106]

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[birthofanorange]

That's hardly fair considering I have been arguing with you lot for years.over thousands of posts. It's also not my problem you lot can't move on with your lives and continually want to fight past battles. Just think how bored you would all be if I didn't post amymore [emoji106]

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See, there you go again.

What makes you think that it's 'past battles'? The consequences of Brexit are ongoing - there's nothing 'past' about that.
You and the rest of the fingers-in-ears clan seem to want to avoid discussing it at all, like it's all over and done with. The thing is, it isn't - it's just started, whether you like it or not.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Poor old Baroness Kate Hoey has to the Brexiter of the week.

Its almost like she didn't think this whole thing through?

Tiocfaidh ár lá is getting closer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxdHe90mC28

A Brexit superstar. Not only was she a few light years away from her pro-Remain London constituency, she was also some considerable distance from her fellow ( countrymen in (pro Remain) NI. Truly a lady with her finger on the pulse.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

See, there you go again.

What makes you think that it's 'past battles'? The consequences of Brexit are ongoing - there's nothing 'past' about that.
You and the rest of the fingers-in-ears clan seem to want to avoid discussing it at all, like it's all over and done with. The thing is, it isn't - it's just started, whether you like it or not.

The person I was replying to asked my opinion about the sovereignty issue which has been done to death on here.

But, I fully agree we are at the beginning of the Brexit journey which makes all the 'we told you so/Brexit is a proven disaster' bollox so tedious and just shows its really about point scoring for many people not sensible balanced analysis.

As I have said before, a proper assessment can only be made after several years then, perhaps,we can begin to draw some conclusions.


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[Pretty pink fairy]

See, there you go again.

What makes you think that it's 'past battles'? The consequences of Brexit are ongoing - there's nothing 'past' about that.
You and the rest of the fingers-in-ears clan seem to want to avoid discussing it at all, like it's all over and done with. The thing is, it isn't - it's just started, whether you like it or not.

You carry on discussing it chunky , you've achieved NOTHING it's all becoming a counselling room with bad losers who seek comfort with other bad losers , that's the sum of it , chin up
Regards
DF

 

[ManOfSussex]

Just updating you, you're not missing much. The victory get more hollow every week, and they still haven't come up with any Brexit dividends, there was something a few weeks ago about tampons...

So clutching at straws has been replaced by clutching at strings then....................

 

[Mo Gosfield]

The person I was replying to asked my opinion about the sovereignty issue which has been done to death on here.

But, I fully agree we are at the beginning of the Brexit journey which makes all the 'we told you so/Brexit is a proven disaster' bollox so tedious and just shows its really about point scoring for many people not sensible balanced analysis.

As I have said before, a proper assessment can only be made after several years then, perhaps,we can begin to draw some conclusions.


Well....we are already back to being the 5th largest economy in the world, there is still food in the shops and 95% of lorries are arriving at the ports with the right paperwork, so armageddon is still a little way off yet. We are seeing some price rises ( Pork, Pate, Fruit Juice, Corned Beef etc....+ 5-10% ) but as usual our food manufacturers get round it by de-sizing product, which is already happening in a number of sectors this year.
Brexit cannot be properly assessed until we see our economy regain its near 10% fall in 2020 and then a further 2-3 years of government changes e.g taxation. So ask me in 2025 and I might have some idea then.

 

[birthofanorange]

You carry on discussing it chunky , you've achieved NOTHING it's all becoming a counselling room with bad losers who seek comfort with other bad losers , that's the sum of it , chin up
Regards
DF

Look, I appreciate that it's all too complicated for your poor racist, nazi-riddled brain to cope with, so why not stop posting pointless and irrelevant shite and go back to knocking one out over a few far-right videos? There's a good fairy.

 

[nicko31]

The person I was replying to asked my opinion about the sovereignty issue which has been done to death on here.

But, I fully agree we are at the beginning of the Brexit journey which makes all the 'we told you so/Brexit is a proven disaster' bollox so tedious and just shows its really about point scoring for many people not sensible balanced analysis.

As I have said before, a proper assessment can only be made after several years then, perhaps,we can begin to draw some conclusions.


Well....we are already back to being the 5th largest economy in the world, there is still food in the shops and 95% of lorries are arriving at the ports with the right paperwork, so armageddon is still a little way off yet. We are seeing some price rises ( Pork, Pate, Fruit Juice, Corned Beef etc....+ 5-10% ) but as usual our food manufacturers get round it by de-sizing product, which is already happening in a number of sectors this year.
Brexit cannot be properly assessed until we see our economy regain its near 10% fall in 2020 and then a further 2-3 years of government changes e.g taxation. So ask me in 2025 and I might have some idea then.

Mo, may I ask what you do for a living?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well....we are already back to being the 5th largest economy in the world, there is still food in the shops and 95% of lorries are arriving at the ports with the right paperwork, so armageddon is still a little way off yet. We are seeing some price rises ( Pork, Pate, Fruit Juice, Corned Beef etc....+ 5-10% ) but as usual our food manufacturers get round it by de-sizing product, which is already happening in a number of sectors this year.
Brexit cannot be properly assessed until we see our economy regain its near 10% fall in 2020 and then a further 2-3 years of government changes e.g taxation. So ask me in 2025 and I might have some idea then.

Well I wouldn't expect food in our shops or UK prices to be effected yet as we haven't introduced any of the necessary import controls, so we are running an open border as far as imports are concerned. I believe that we have promised both the EU and WTO that we will introduce these in July as we are not currently compliant with the legislation, although we have been given a 6 month extension to introduce them.

Any problems from 1st Jan only effect Exports and since exports have dropped significantly (68% reported below) and consequently 2/3rds of the lorries returning to the EU are empty and don't need customs clearance, there are no holdups.

Surely after July would be when we could see issues with food on shelves and price rises

https://news.sky.com/story/exports-to-the-eu-have-plummeted-by-68-since-brexit-12211169

 

[daveinplzen]

Welcome back Dave ..... been a while. Hope the EU vaccine debacle (you favoured) hasn't adversely effected you and yours [emoji106]

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I'm fine thank you. Anyway, back to the question you're avoiding?

 

[Randy McNob]

The person I was replying to asked my opinion about the sovereignty issue which has been done to death on here.

But, I fully agree we are at the beginning of the Brexit journey which makes all the 'we told you so/Brexit is a proven disaster' bollox so tedious and just shows its really about point scoring for many people not sensible balanced analysis.

As I have said before, a proper assessment can only be made after several years then, perhaps,we can begin to draw some conclusions.


Well....we are already back to being the 5th largest economy in the world, there is still food in the shops and 95% of lorries are arriving at the ports with the right paperwork, so armageddon is still a little way off yet. We are seeing some price rises ( Pork, Pate, Fruit Juice, Corned Beef etc....+ 5-10% ) but as usual our food manufacturers get round it by de-sizing product, which is already happening in a number of sectors this year.
Brexit cannot be properly assessed until we see our economy regain its near 10% fall in 2020 and then a further 2-3 years of government changes e.g taxation. So ask me in 2025 and I might have some idea then.

So damage limitation? You're saying to people who didn't want this, who didn't vote for this, who told the people that did this would be the consequences (to which they said it wouldn't happen that it's project fear) that they should accept the economic harm, threats to their livelihood, jobs, loss of freedoms, to suck it up and hope that in 5-10 years things might get better? strange how something you don't know what will turn out like for at least 5 years is EXACTLY what you voted for.....

well, Cheers !

 

[nicko31]

Well I wouldn't expect food in our shops or UK prices to be effected yet as we haven't introduced any of the necessary import controls, so we are running an open border as far as imports are concerned. I believe that we have promised both the EU and WTO that we will introduce these in July as we are not currently compliant with the legislation, although we have been given a 6 month extension to introduce them.

Any problems from 1st Jan only effect Exports and since exports have dropped significantly (68% reported below) and consequently 2/3rds of the lorries returning to the EU are empty and don't need customs clearance, there are no holdups.

Surely after July would be when we could see issues with food on shelves and price rises

https://news.sky.com/story/exports-to-the-eu-have-plummeted-by-68-since-brexit-12211169

Really is UK SME exporters feeling the pain dealing with VAT, rules of origin, health certificates and other red tape, larger business often with EU footprints have largely already made their move.

EU Importers have been given 6 months to prepare. Good to see our government looked out for British business isn't it?

Then there's services that's another clusterf**k altogether

 

[pastafarian]

As I have said before, a proper assessment can only be made after several years then, perhaps,we can begin to draw some conclusions.


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I can already conclude whether an assessment is made in several years or several decades that re-joining would entail ceding sovereign powers back to Brussels all in the name of pooled sovereignty.

So its a NO from me, now and in the future.

 

[A1X]

Well....we are already back to being the 5th largest economy in the world

That's not true.

95% of lorries are arriving at the ports with the right paperwork,

Nor is that.