Or alternatively it’s a bunch of pseudo intellectuals who seem to have forgotten the most basic of adult skills, the ability to read.
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Or alternatively it’s a bunch of pseudo intellectuals who seem to have forgotten the most basic of adult skills, the ability to read.
This doesn't reflect reality at all: Merkel is a very pragmatic politician, it was she who pushed through the changes that Cameron wanted (giving him more leeway than any other EU leader) and it was she (along with Rutte) who has been most active in trying to keep the UK onside.
It will be interesting to see who succeeds her, if it's Laschen or Röttgen, it will be more of the same; if it's Merz, then he'll be less European and more focused on Germany (there's a small chance that it could be Söder but that would be a bit like Sturgeon becoming PM in a Labour/SNP alliance).
This is the wrong time for this thread.
Leavers are still basking in their victory, and the reality of leaving hasn’t even begun yet.
I said at the time of the vote, if after 5 years the country is in a better position than it would have been if we remained in , I would apologise for my comments on the absolute lunacy of it.
I’ll stick by that, and don’t think I’ll be apologising.
Leavers are still basking in their victory, and the reality of leaving hasn’t even begun yet.
I said at the time of the vote, if after 5 years the country is in a better position than it would have been if we remained in , I would apologise for my comments on the absolute lunacy of it.
I’ll stick by that, and don’t think I’ll be apologising.
It wasn't a left v right issue, rich v poor or bourgeois v proletariat. When people who I respect such as [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION] say they voted for Brexit and articulated differing but considered reasons then perhaps instead of throwing brickbats why not engage in adult debate and listen to their concerns?
There aren't 19.1 million racists in this country and their aren't 19.1 million stupid people either, so instead of belittling, which results in those that don't share your views doubling down, it is better to consider the concerns of others.
There are fundamental and systemic things wrong in this country, which had led to many people feeling unrepresented and cast adrift. The EU may be responsible for some of them, or may be a scapegoat. Until you engage you won't find out.
There aren't 19.1 million racists in this country and their aren't 19.1 million stupid people either, so instead of belittling, which results in those that don't share your views doubling down, it is better to consider the concerns of others.
There are fundamental and systemic things wrong in this country, which had led to many people feeling unrepresented and cast adrift. The EU may be responsible for some of them, or may be a scapegoat. Until you engage you won't find out.
That's blind faith, do you really think we'll get competent fair governance in the next 20 or 30 years? I don't.
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
If i was a Brexiteer who wanted to give the finger to the metro elite I’d be quite happy, job done with icing on the cake. If i though it would slow down net migration then i would be optimistic. If i wanted to be internationalist britain I’d be mildly concerned. If i wanted localised decision making then id be asking a few questions. If i was a unionist brexiteer I’d be very concerned. If i did it to improve the economy and job prospects for my compatriots i’d be keeping my head low.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
The fundamental reasons I voted for Brexit haven't changed so I still feel it's the right decision but the leaving process has been far more problematic than necessary which in large part was down to the result of the 2017 General election. PM May and her advisors looked at the polls and gambled that she would most likely get a substantial majority in a snap election. This would have meant she could negotiate from a position of strength, unfortunately (mainly due to a terrible campaign), the opposite happened meaning she and the government were now hugely weakened and could be undermined by numerous factions within parliament. The EU unsurprisingly have exploited this weakness.
As others have correctly said it will take several years before a balanced judgement can be made which is why the people already claiming it's failed or saying I told you so are best ignored. After all a few years after we voted to stay in the EC there was a two to one majority saying we had made the wrong choice.
I don't think this country is truly democratic
Whilst I thought Blair had a good few years, his war effort wasn't quite the icing everyone likes on their cake, I don't recall any other good governement
A few people like Major and Brown did what they could with plasma hot potato's , but thats individual fire fighting as opposed to a governement
Whilst I thought Blair had a good few years, his war effort wasn't quite the icing everyone likes on their cake, I don't recall any other good governement
A few people like Major and Brown did what they could with plasma hot potato's , but thats individual fire fighting as opposed to a governement
This is exactly the type of sneering elitist comment that has amplified division.
People don't like change when they're cofortable.
I agree
It's difficult to get an answer from someone who doesn't understand the reason behind the question.
nicko31
Well-known member
The arsonist finally ran away today, so many victims.
A complete failure from the Vote Leave government
Look at the poll some people still need help
A complete failure from the Vote Leave government
Look at the poll some people still need help
Weststander
Well-known member
Plus a complete failure to listen to arguments that have been given e.g. an unwillingness to want EU convergence on issues beyond trade and standards, and anger about the sudden change to many communities with the influx of continentals into smaller towns.
Widening the discussion, I’ve always thought that Brexit would never have happened, Farage would’ve remained a fringe figure, if:
1. Major over Maastrict and Blair with Lisbon had put the treaties to the UK in referenda. The nonchalance/arrogance that only they knew best, was a breeding ground for discontent. They would’ve won those referenda.
2. The opening of borders led to many millions entering the UK in short time, schools, GP surgeries and hospitals weren’t set up for that, we now have a massive housing crisis. I’m pro immigration and pro EU folk coming here to work, but slowly, slowly should somehow have been the strategy to manage the change over a much longer period.
Instead, perfect conditions for Farage, The Daily Mail, IDS, Redwood et al to get huge number of the discontent on their side.
Weststander
Well-known member
The reasons have been given, repeatedly. Because you don’t agree with them, you blank them out and pretend that Brexiteers never put them forward.
Plooks, I'm with you . . . I've yet to hear an answer from anyone as to what benefit there may be from leaving the EU, it appears to be completely driven by a small band of gamblers ( being polite) people who will piss on those who were convinced to vote for them. Thats the politicians and press in general , not just Brexit.
I honestly think a lot of brexit voters would vote remain IF they could get their heads round the fact that if they left their own back yard and engaged in european politics they would understand they could have a say at that level and get the 'change' they've been convinced they want, and some, but from within, we've always had euro mp's but the vast majority just ignored their existence.
We have, until 2016 always managed to shoot well above our weight, and carry far more sway than most nations at EU level
As it currently looks, we'll not be at the dining table next year, discussing change, or getting the food we want, we'll be shouting from the garden gate looking through the window and all the tasty stuff on their table, hoping we can get a bit, if we can afford it, and before it goes mouldy. Is that the change they voted for ? It seems like the most likely outcome at the moment.
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Yup. I was a regular contributor to the Brexit thread for a year or so (maybe longer ?). I made the arguments and answered all questions extremely politely and reasonably. Unfortunately there are a number of Remain posters ( by no means all) who responded with patronizing elitism or outright abuse. The attitude was that anyone who voted leave was stupid and did not understand the issues. I stopped contributing to the Brexit thread. Some people just will not listen. Several of them have contributed to this thread. They expect people to keep answering the same questions and the moment you don’t repeat the answer for the umpteenth time the accusations of stupidity and avoidance get made. Not for me.
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
LEAVE MEANS LEAVE as I always told you The Future is in OUR hands,really happy thanks
Regards
DF
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981