[Politics] Brexit

[Lever]

While in the post of Prime Minister, he will visibly age, quite rapidly; they all do.

Maybe it is a serious case of 'be careful what you wish for'......

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I've not got too much sympathy for the farmers given that many of them did effectively signed their own death certificate by voting for Brexit and that despite hefty subsidies they moan like hell

I take it you have farmers in your family to be able to make such a statement ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I take it you have farmers in your family to be able to make such a statement ?

Are you only allowed to think £3.5 Billion is a 'hefty' subsidy if you are related to a farmer then ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48880939

I'm guessing that this must be one of Cummings edicts for this week that I was unaware of

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Are you only allowed to think £3.5 Billion is a 'hefty' subsidy if you are related to a farmer then ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48880939

I'm guessing that this must be one of Cummings edicts for this week that I was unaware of

Ah, so as well as being an expert in world trade, politics, EU process, infrastructure building, paperclip selling, IT .... you're now an expert in farming ? And people wonder why so few people believe 'experts'.

I know you're rich - after all you've moved your 'investments' abroad ( I'm sure most farmers would love to have enough money to be 'investors' ) but if you really think the average of £14k per farmer in two select areas is 'hefty' then you need your bumps felt. A vast majority of farmers get far less than that - many only get around £5k and only earn an extra £30k on top of that. And that doesn;t include the reams of paperwork ( as well as the back breaking work that most of us would shy away from ) to get those pathetic subsides. Especially when French farmers get a vast amount more.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I know you're rich - after all you've moved your 'investments' abroad ( I'm sure most farmers would love to have enough money to be 'investors' ) but if you really think the average of £14k per farmer in two select areas is 'hefty' then you need your bumps felt. A vast majority of farmers get far less than that - many only get around £5k and only earn an extra £30k on top of that. And that doesn;t include the reams of paperwork ( as well as the back breaking work that most of us would shy away from ) to get those pathetic subsides. Especially when French farmers get a vast amount more.

Well, however much they get, they won't be getting it after the end of the year due to the way you voted

And me, rich ? I would love to be able to eat in the Restaurants that you and other successful property developers like yourself frequent and review on the Restaurant Threads. I'm just a poor pensioner who is having to eat in some old chain restaurant tonight

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well, however much they get, they won't be getting it after the end of the year due to the way you voted

And me, rich ? I would love to be able to eat in the Restaurants that you and other successful property developers like yourself frequent and review on the Restaurant 2020 Thread. I'm just a poor pensioner who is having to eat in some old chain restaurant tonight

And yet you have private health care, investments abroad and can eat out VERY regularly based on your posts on here.

Many farmers claimed subs because they could - many said that it was below minimum wage when you worked out the effort vs payment but it was better than nothing. I agree, they won't now get it - but surely it's better to earn less than be slaves to the EU ? I know that's how the three farmers in my family feel.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I take it you have farmers in your family to be able to make such a statement ?

Hello Westdene,


The way in which you've framed your question makes me wonder if you are seeking a serious answer. However, here goes:

1. No, I don't come from farming stock. This is unsurprising given that I come from a council estate in Worthing. But I like to think that we are allowed a view. We are all - in the modern parlance - 'stakeholders'.

2. On the hefty subsidies issue: The Times August 2016 claimed that the average farm made £2100 from farming and £28.300 from subsidies. This was later confirmed by 'Full Fact'.

3. On the 'moaning' issues this is of course a matter of perception. But they are not backwards in in coming forward. I refer you to the activities of the Countryside Alliance. Funnily enough I have a little bit of experience on this. I once worked in a Welsh Agricultural college back in the 1980s. There were a number of guys there from something called the Dyfed Farmers Action Group. Believe me, these guys went quite a bit beyond mere moaning.

I'm sure that they'd be heartened by your support. Moreover, I'm honest enough to admit that were I in their shoes, I'd be the biggest moaner of the lot. But I'm not and neither are you (although I understand your family loyalties), so we have to find something else to moan about, I guess.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And yet you have private health care, investments abroad and can eat out VERY regularly based on your posts on here.

Many farmers claimed subs because they could - many said that it was below minimum wage when you worked out the effort vs payment but it was better than nothing. I agree, they won't now get it - but surely it's better to earn less than be slaves to the EU ? I know that's how the three farmers in my family feel.

Well then hopefully those three farmers, and many others, will now get what they wanted and voted for.

As I said earlier, I believe that overall across the country, the demographics that voted for Brexit will see the biggest effect, which I guess is what they would have wanted

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

PS with respect to your comment, but surely it's better to earn less than be slaves to the EU

Reuters, Feb 2020:

Agriculture contributed just 1.1% to EU gross domestic product while the bloc’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) is the single largest component of EU spending, accounting for 38% of the 1.1 trillion euro 2014-20 budget.

As slavery goes, this doesn't appear to be one of the more brutal examples throughout history.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

PS with respect to your comment, but surely it's better to earn less than be slaves to the EU

Reuters, Feb 2020:

Agriculture contributed just 1.1% to EU gross domestic product while the bloc’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) is the single largest component of EU spending, accounting for 38% of the 1.1 trillion euro 2014-20 budget.

As slavery goes, this doesn't appear to be one of the more brutal examples throughout history.

Now look up which nations farmers a vast majority of that went to. CAP also highlights why we shouldn't be in the EU.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

2. On the hefty subsidies issue: The Times August 2016 claimed that the average farm made £2100 from farming and £28.300 from subsidies. This was later confirmed by 'Full Fact'.

From the BBC -

"Farmers in the East of England and Scotland received the highest individual subsidies, typically worth more than £14,000 each"

So who to believe ? The BBC or The Times ? I know the farmers in my family couldn't get even close to £28,300 a year.As an example, one claimed £1k for planting new hedgerow ..... the EU even provided the plants .... the catch being he had to plant 1000 plants ..... by hand.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

And yet you have private health care, investments abroad and can eat out VERY regularly based on your posts on here.

Many farmers claimed subs because they could - many said that it was below minimum wage when you worked out the effort vs payment but it was better than nothing. I agree, they won't now get it - but surely it's better to earn less than be slaves to the EU ? I know that's how the three farmers in my family feel.

My family were farmers for 500 years but now it's in the past sadly. If my mother had been my father then perhaps my life would have been very different. Whereabouts in Britain are your family's three farmers?

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I take it you have farmers in your family to be able to make such a statement ?

I have farmers in my family and they are always playing up.

 

[daveinplzen]

Good to see, at least one leaver trying to fight back despite the cluster**** he has a hand in
You ****ed up mate.

 

[paulfuzz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85X3JFqY3IA

 

[Berty23]

It is very odd seeing people say that 3.5 billion is not that much when it is more than twice as much as the whole fishing industry is worth. As we all know the fishing industry has been made the most relevant industry for brexit. It is absolutely bizarre that people would rather a no deal to protect a relatively tiny and insignificant industry and destroy loads of others. All very odd.


No I am not saying fishing doesn’t matter. I am saying it is relatively very very small to others.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

From the BBC -

"Farmers in the East of England and Scotland received the highest individual subsidies, typically worth more than £14,000 each"

So who to believe ? The BBC or The Times ? I know the farmers in my family couldn't get even close to £28,300 a year.As an example, one claimed £1k for planting new hedgerow ..... the EU even provided the plants .... the catch being he had to plant 1000 plants ..... by hand.

So let's just agree that

1, Many famers, like your relatives, struggle on very low margins.

2. Thus the subsidy - whatever its size - is vital.

3. It is not as big as the subsidy given to, say, the French.

4. In 2021, that subsidy is likely to disappear. (Not for the French.)

5. Not only that but frictionless trade in agri exports is likely to go and there will be fewer migrant workers to pick the crops.

6. This was something that the victims voted for.

7. This was largely because the French get more.

8. Farmers don't moan.

9. Because they voted for this, they certainly won't moan in 2021.

Honestly, I can see why some folk voted for Brexit, and I sympathise with anyone struggling to make a living, but I can't for the life of me understand this.

 

[Lever]

So let's just agree that

1, Many famers, like your relatives, struggle on very low margins.

2. Thus the subsidy - whatever its size - is vital.

3. It is not as big as the subsidy given to, say, the French.

4. In 2021, that subsidy is likely to disappear. (Not for the French.)

5. Not only that but frictionless trade in agri exports is likely to go and there will be fewer migrant workers to pick the crops.

6. This was something that the victims voted for.

7. This was largely because the French get more.

8. Farmers don't moan.

9. Because they voted for this, they certainly won't moan in 2021.

Honestly, I can see why some folk voted for Brexit, and I sympathise with anyone struggling to make a living, but I can't for the life of me understand this.

Does this mean that farmers will not enjoy the promised 'sunny uplands' in January 2021?

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

From the BBC -

"Farmers in the East of England and Scotland received the highest individual subsidies, typically worth more than £14,000 each"

So who to believe ? The BBC or The Times ? I know the farmers in my family couldn't get even close to £28,300 a year.As an example, one claimed £1k for planting new hedgerow ..... the EU even provided the plants .... the catch being he had to plant 1000 plants ..... by hand.

But this would have been his choice. He chose to claim the money to plant a new hedge. The EU never forced farmers to these things.

Similar subsidies are still being looked into for 2021 and onwards, but they are likely to be lower paid or just fewer paid.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Now look up which nations farmers a vast majority of that went to. CAP also highlights why we shouldn't be in the EU.

Our farmers probably weren't helped by those UKIP and Brexit Party MEPs who wouldn't turn up or fight Britain's cause in the EU parliament for the last 20 years. I wonder if these farmers voted for them

From the BBC -

"Farmers in the East of England and Scotland received the highest individual subsidies, typically worth more than £14,000 each"

So who to believe ? The BBC or The Times ? I know the farmers in my family couldn't get even close to £28,300 a year.As an example, one claimed £1k for planting new hedgerow ..... the EU even provided the plants .... the catch being he had to plant 1000 plants ..... by hand.

That is a dreadful catch, having to do something in order to get the £1000, a choice which was his. Wonder what the hourly rate worked out at for a bit of manual labour