[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

Agreed, but surely she knows this. On second thoughts...…………..Seriously, I'm trying to understand the agenda here. The elephant in the room is productivity. We (the UK) are hopeless. Brexiteers (not the man-in-the-street Brexiteers but the ones who think the are clever) attacked low-paid immigrant labour as the easy option for businesses to

a) not train the local workforce and b) not invest in technology (though quite what technology you'd employ in the care sector is one for Cummings to work out - robots??). This was thought to drive down productivity. However, I'm not sure how raising a reserve army of under-employed locals to replace hard working and 'productive' EU workers (few deny that this is the case) will really help crack the productivity problem which is thought to be the key to competitiveness and growth.

In short, I'm buggered if I can understand what they are trying to do.

Yes, she knows it, it is not where the workers are really going to come from, they are going to come from overseas, it's window dressing to make it appear at first glance (which is all most leavers will give it) that their immigration policy will result in fewer immigrants.

 

[clapham_gull]

Yes, she knows it, it is not where the workers are really going to come from, they are going to come from overseas, it's window dressing to make it appear at first glance (which is all most leavers will give it) that their immigration policy will result in fewer immigrants.

It's not like it hasn't been warned. Attacking the policy on the basis of racism and xenophobia doesn't help either.

Those pulling the strings (not Boris, I'm sure he understands it) want to change the economy into a Singapore style one. No conspiracy, they have spoken openly about it.

Immigration is a major part of it and Boris behind the scenes under May was lobbying for Freedom of Movement. Those voting for Brexit / Tories to limit immigration have effectively been bought and tossed to one side.

This is not a points system at all. A points system allows "value" to be applied to a prospective immigrant's qualifications when they haven't got a job now, but the economy requires their skills. It's there to encourage a particularly form of immigration.

This system is completely the opposite - it's based on salary with no stipulation on the type of role. They have just cynically called it a points system but awarding points to the salary.

Fooled ? I'm not.

Unfortunately many have been.

If you read their actual document, they respond to fears about low skilled workers by suggesting

1) Many EU low skilled immigrants have come here already with more to follow before the rules kick in.
2) We're gonna allow enough skilled workers in, so their husbands/wives can pick up the slack.

Nothing in there about this "invisible non-economic workforce", because that doesn't fit in with the truth.

 

[Dick Head]

Haven't they conned enough money out of their supporters already?



Farrage's paltry EU pension is obviously not enough for him.

 

[A1X]

Well played Greece - well played:-

[tweet]1229832568822009856[/tweet]

On the scale of "countries fancying their chances at getting a bit of payback for history" we're going to see play out over the next few years as we go round with the begging bowl this is going to seem like the most vanilla thing imaginable. More vanilla than actual vanilla.

 

[The Clamp]

Haven't they conned enough money out of their supporters already?

View attachment 120316

Farrage's paltry EU pension is obviously not enough for him.

They performed the biggest gullibility test with the referendum and the recent election. They know they have a huge, gullible, captive audience to flog this crap to. £10 for a 50p piece, anyone?

 

[vegster]

Well, this I believe is the actual situation and far from a conspiracy. Those controlling the party (NOT Boris) have no beef with immigration, far from it.

They do have a problem with benefits, anyone who has had the misfortune to be less privileged than they are and the size of the state.

They have somehow managed to re-engineer the fear of immigration into:

1) Pushing the cost of the low skilled, low educated working class onto business by cutting off their access to unskilled labour from abroad. They are yours now.

2) Importing an educated "super class" from abroad. Don't care where they come from (or the colour of their skin), just that they are clever and won't rely on benefits.

3) Selling it to the frothing in the mouth brigade as a "crack down on immigration" when it's completely the opposite.

4) Selling it to the frothing in the mouth brigade as a "point system", when it's nothing of the sort. Business can take from wherever they like, just got to stump up the wages.

It's all about attempting to create a high wage, low taxation, small state utopia where the burden of the "underclass" is pushed over to business. All cynically wrapped up an as immigration policy.

The silence on here from the Boris Brexit fan boys is deafening.

I can see you point, so we lose "cheap " labour from abroad... mind you, I would not qualify on wages to come in to my own country from now on...…..and suddenly as the " Cheap " labour dries up, 8 million people are forced/coerced in to seeking jobs...… so in the classic supply/demand analysis suddenly there are a HUGE amount of people chasing poorly paid work.... does the wage go up ? Of course not, the government will have created little more than a slave labour force of Deltas and Epsilions who will have to do all the menial tasks and the belt tightening in order to compete against our international trading rivals while business owners cash in. Marvellous scenes.

Boris will be able to retire permanently to Mustique by the end of his five year term.

 

[ShandyH]

Late arrival to this thread.

I’ve been involved in the acquisition of French and Belgian companies and their employment laws immobilise their economies. We had people in the company on relatively average salaries on their “committee” asking for €700k for 5 years of work to “distribute” with their colleagues as severance. Is it any wonder that it stifles entrepreneurship - a French word? This debate is a bit deeper than fishing rights.

Is it a good idea to align with a 27 country voting system? When you look at this in the context of a very big global recession (which is about to happen) due to successive over-borrowing, I think it’s a good idea to get out of Europe. The battles we are seeing are short term. It also makes our government totally accountable with no excuses.

Also the European Commission isn’t entirely democratic.

So there’s my gentle opening gambit.

X

 

[GT49er]

Late arrival to this thread.

I’ve been involved in the acquisition of French and Belgian companies and their employment laws immobilise their economies. We had people in the company on relatively average salaries on their “committee” asking for €700k for 5 years of work to “distribute” with their colleagues as severance. Is it any wonder that it stifles entrepreneurship - a French word? This debate is a bit deeper than fishing rights.

Is it a good idea to align with a 27 country voting system? When you look at this in the context of a very big global recession (which is about to happen) due to successive over-borrowing, I think it’s a good idea to get out of Europe. The battles we are seeing are short term. It also makes our government totally accountable with no excuses.

Also the European Commission isn’t entirely democratic.

So there’s my gentle opening gambit.

X

Get ready to be flamed! The unelected self-styled liberal intelligentsia will be on your case as soon as they wake up. You will be officially thick, old and racist before you can say, 'But ........ '

(That's what remainers think of anyone who disagrees with them, btw. Not that they are prejudiced, or in any way inclined to stereotype people, you understand. Well, you probably don't understand - that sort of stereotyping and bigotry doesn't fit with the values of liberalism and tolerance - but you just have to get used to it and accept that (in their eyes anyway) it does). Funny old world.............

 

[The Clamp]

Get ready to be flamed! The unelected self-styled liberal intelligentsia will be on your case as soon as they wake up. You will be officially thick, old and racist before you can say, 'But ........ '

(That's what remainers think of anyone who disagrees with them, btw. Not that they are prejudiced, or in any way inclined to stereotype people, you understand. Well, you probably don't understand - that sort of stereotyping and bigotry doesn't fit with the values of liberalism and tolerance - but you just have to get used to it and accept that (in their eyes anyway) it does). Funny old world.............

Telling. Rather than engage with the points the poster has made, you simply see it as an excuse to have a pop at people whose opinions you don’t agree with. Bravo.

 

[daveinplzen]

Get ready to be flamed! The unelected self-styled liberal intelligentsia will be on your case as soon as they wake up. You will be officially thick, old and racist before you can say, 'But ........ '

(That's what remainers think of anyone who disagrees with them, btw. Not that they are prejudiced, or in any way inclined to stereotype people, you understand. Well, you probably don't understand - that sort of stereotyping and bigotry doesn't fit with the values of liberalism and tolerance - but you just have to get used to it and accept that (in their eyes anyway) it does). Funny old world.............

Please walk me through the implications of a 'no-deal' Brexit.

 

[daveinplzen]

Late arrival to this thread.

I’ve been involved in the acquisition of French and Belgian companies and their employment laws immobilise their economies. We had people in the company on relatively average salaries on their “committee” asking for €700k for 5 years of work to “distribute” with their colleagues as severance. Is it any wonder that it stifles entrepreneurship - a French word? This debate is a bit deeper than fishing rights.

Is it a good idea to align with a 27 country voting system? When you look at this in the context of a very big global recession (which is about to happen) due to successive over-borrowing, I think it’s a good idea to get out of Europe. The battles we are seeing are short term. It also makes our government totally accountable with no excuses.

Also the European Commission isn’t entirely democratic.

So there’s my gentle opening gambit.

X

What do you consider short term, and what are your views on a 'no-deal' brexit' and how will a world recession affect the UK amid the current cluster****?

 

[Klaas]

Get ready to be flamed! The unelected self-styled liberal intelligentsia will be on your case as soon as they wake up. You will be officially thick, old and racist before you can say, 'But ........ '

(That's what remainers think of anyone who disagrees with them, btw. Not that they are prejudiced, or in any way inclined to stereotype people, you understand. Well, you probably don't understand - that sort of stereotyping and bigotry doesn't fit with the values of liberalism and tolerance - but you just have to get used to it and accept that (in their eyes anyway) it does). Funny old world.............

Jesus. This is literally all you add to the debate isn't it? Completely pathetic.

So different to the post you quoted.

 

[Lever]

Anyone know if David Frost, (Head of Taskforce Europe), at the Cabinet Office could be described as an 'unelected bureaucrat'?

 

[sparkie]

Late arrival to this thread.

I’ve been involved in the acquisition of French and Belgian companies and their employment laws immobilise their economies. We had people in the company on relatively average salaries on their “committee” asking for €700k for 5 years of work to “distribute” with their colleagues as severance. Is it any wonder that it stifles entrepreneurship - a French word? This debate is a bit deeper than fishing rights.

Is it a good idea to align with a 27 country voting system? When you look at this in the context of a very big global recession (which is about to happen) due to successive over-borrowing, I think it’s a good idea to get out of Europe. The battles we are seeing are short term. It also makes our government totally accountable with no excuses.

Also the European Commission isn’t entirely democratic.

So there’s my gentle opening gambit.

X

That is all well and good - and that decision has been made and actioned so an endless 'who is right' discussion is pointless - but what is the advantage of prioritising deadline over deal content in the next round of negotiations ?

To me that just results in a disastrous deal, when a good deal could be done instead with effort, application and sufficient time.

 

[nicko31]

Nicko, don't be so dramatic, that well known quote is just that and you know it!
Please clarify the rest of your post and then I'll have a crack at replying!

P.S.Let us hope the Labour Party go after the crackpot conmen and women that so f---ed them up and made them unelectable, eh?
At least the country weren't conned by them!

I'm not being dramatic, I've never been one of here that has dismissed all Brexiters as thickos, but many were conned by a bunch of liars that weaponised immigration to whip up nationalism

Labour (a party I have never voted for and probably never will) have told lies but the scale pales into insignificance compared this populist bunch we have at the helm today that have tarnished our name around the world and left our Union hanging together by a thread. They need to be called out at every step

 

[ManOfSussex]

Anyone know if David Frost, (Head of Taskforce Europe), at the Cabinet Office could be described as an 'unelected bureaucrat'?

It's a difficult one to call, I just looked at his wikipedia entry and thought he could. It's an impressive diplomatic career he had. He could well also be an 'expert' as well, although when he left the diplomatic service he was apparently Johnson's special adviser when Johnson was Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, so Frost might just be a complete **** instead.

 

[BadFish]

Late arrival to this thread.

I’ve been involved in the acquisition of French and Belgian companies and their employment laws immobilise their economies. We had people in the company on relatively average salaries on their “committee” asking for €700k for 5 years of work to “distribute” with their colleagues as severance. Is it any wonder that it stifles entrepreneurship - a French word? This debate is a bit deeper than fishing rights.

Is it a good idea to align with a 27 country voting system? When you look at this in the context of a very big global recession (which is about to happen) due to successive over-borrowing, I think it’s a good idea to get out of Europe. The battles we are seeing are short term. It also makes our government totally accountable with no excuses.

Also the European Commission isn’t entirely democratic.

So there’s my gentle opening gambit.

X

What a great post. Really stands out on this thread by offering a positive about Brexit.

Thoroughly refreshing.

I would be feeling much more confident about the whole thing with a bit more of this king of thinking and expression doing the round.

 

[Klaas]

What a great post. Really stands out on this thread by offering a positive about Brexit.

Thoroughly refreshing.

I would be feeling much more confident about the whole thing with a bit more of this king of thinking and expression doing the round.

Steady on, I was pleased to read a post that puts forward a positive spin on Brexit beyond 'stop moaning and believe' but he's got to do a bit more to convince me he's king.

 

[BadFish]

Steady on, I was pleased to read a post that puts forward a positive spin on Brexit beyond 'stop moaning and believe' but he's got to do a bit more to convince me he's king.

That is quite a typo

I proclaim SandyH King of Brexit.

 

[nicko31]

That is quite a typo

I proclaim SandyH King of Brexit.

I'm still sticking with the poster that told us because of Brexit we'd now be able to sell Pork to China, still my King of Brexit.