[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

Surely nobody could find them abhorrent?
We have been part of a protectionist bloc, looking after the interests of its members and operating some stringent tariffs to blockade other global suitors. We now have to stand alone, offering a market place of 65m as opposed to 500m. Still attractive, due to our spending potential per head but lacking the clout of the EU.
Expect a renewal of historical ties with Australia and New Zealand, who previously exported huge amounts of dairy and meat to the UK, as well as much better deals on their wines. Generally, a lot of imports will still come from Europe, as our position in services continues to grow and our financial sector booms as move towards a ' Singapore-On-Thames' style of economy, fast moving and service driven.

I can't make a lot of sense of this I'm afraid.

All trade deals/arrangements are 'protectionist' in the sense that. by definition. they offer their signatories better trading conditions than are given to others. As you suggest, we are drawing a line under the biggest trade deal we have ever had (not that protectionist as it happens - as well as the 27 other EU countries it also provides special trading arrangements with over 70 other countries) in order to 'stand alone'.

As compensation for this, you offer the exciting prospect of being able to buy more wine and food from the small economies of Australia and New Zealand (the former may well sign a trade deal with the EU before we do) and a rather vague assertion that our economy will become 'fast-moving', 'service-driven' and Singaporean. I don't actually know what those three descriptors actually mean but it all sounds a bit thin and I can't imagine what your vision will do for the residents of Barnsley.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree.
'We're doomed, I tell you, we're doomed'.
I voted Remain, but I am fed up with all the moaning and doomster talk. I get the impression from some on here that they want the country to go down the pan, just so they can say, we told you so and all those who voted Leave are thick morons.
For f---k's sake, give it a rest and get on with your lives!

You're fed up with all the moaning but took the time to post and moan about people pointing out the truth of the political situation today.
Moaning about moaning!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Surely nobody could find them abhorrent?
We have been part of a protectionist bloc, looking after the interests of its members and operating some stringent tariffs to blockade other global suitors. We now have to stand alone, offering a market place of 65m as opposed to 500m. Still attractive, due to our spending potential per head but lacking the clout of the EU.
Expect a renewal of historical ties with Australia and New Zealand, who previously exported huge amounts of dairy and meat to the UK, as well as much better deals on their wines. Generally, a lot of imports will still come from Europe, as our position in services continues to grow and our financial sector booms as move towards a ' Singapore-On-Thames' style of economy, fast moving and service driven.

We expect a renewal of historic ties with New Zealand?

This was in the New Zealand Herald today.

[tweet]1229702241159974912[/tweet]

 

[BLOCK F]

Have a day off. You voted Tory despite them being proven racists, liars beyond anything we've ever seen, and Brexiteers - and all because you couldn't stomach the idea of that nasty Jeremy Corbyn and his high tax for a few years. You clearly don't really give much of a toss about Brexit so I'm not going to be lectured by you telling me to get on with my life.

I'm perfectly capable of doing exactly that whilst calling out the lies, misery, hypocrisy and incompetence of this Brexit fuelled government at the same time thanks. If you don't like it, don't read the thread.

Yes, I did vote Tory, because I , like many others in the country, didn't want a bunch of far left idealogues buggering up the economy of the country. If and when the Labour Party comes to its collective senses, then they will no doubt become electable again.
In the meantime, I don't need a hot tempered, short fused fellow like you to tell me what threads I should or should not read!

 

[nicko31]

Dispiriting....
I still cannot believe these people could be so completely duped.
What were they thinking?

I'm alright jack....

The best of the best of British brexiters living in Spain, highlights skip to...

2 min 41 sec & 6 min 4 secs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUErHV5T2_s

 

[Lever]

I agree.
'We're doomed, I tell you, we're doomed'.
I voted Remain, but I am fed up with all the moaning and doomster talk. I get the impression from some on here that they want the country to go down the pan, just so they can say, we told you so and all those who voted Leave are thick morons.
For f---k's sake, give it a rest and get on with your lives!

Genuine question....
Do you honestly believe that critical comments make matters worse? Would we all be better off in some way if no one says what a lot of us are thinking?

 

[BLOCK F]

You're fed up with all the moaning but took the time to post and moan about people pointing out the truth of the political situation today.
Moaning about moaning!

TB, I very rarely post anymore about anything political, because the threads invariably become bad tempered and intolerant.
Yes, I took the time to post today, because I am fed up with the constant negativity surrounding Brexit.
My wife and I ,and indeed, my whole family voted to Remain, but the country voted to leave and so, being a pragmatist, we must get on with it!
I see little to be gained by going over old ground and I take exception to those who appear to almost will the country to fail ,just so they can say,'ya-boo, we told you so.'
As for those on the Left of the political spectrum, if Corbyn had actually taken an effective role in campaigning for Remain during the Referendum, then the outcome may have been different.
P.S.I hope the shingles is getting better!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

TB, I very rarely post anymore about anything political, because the threads invariably become bad tempered and intolerant.
Yes, I took the time to post today, because I am fed up with the constant negativity surrounding Brexit.
My wife and I ,and indeed, my whole family voted to Remain, but the country voted to leave and so, being a pragmatist, we must get on with it!
I see little to be gained by going over old ground and I take exception to those who appear to almost will the country to fail ,just so they can say,'ya-boo, we told you so.'
As for those on the Left of the political spectrum, if Corbyn had actually taken an effective role in campaigning for Remain during the Referendum, then the outcome may have been different.
P.S.I hope the shingles is getting better!

I'm almost better thank you. I think you will find the remainers on this thread are pointing out the faults because it's only four years to the next election.
It isn't a case of wanting the UK to fail but working towards getting rid of this lot and trying to reverse the decisions made. I don't want to be living under a racist Tory government where only the rich people matter. I will rebel against that for the rest of my natural.

 

[Simster]

Yes, I did vote Tory, because I , like many others in the country, didn't want a bunch of far left idealogues buggering up the economy of the country. If and when the Labour Party comes to its collective senses, then they will no doubt become electable again.
In the meantime, I don't need a hot tempered, short fused fellow like you to tell me what threads I should or should not read!

And I don't need a hoity-toity smugly-superior type telling me to get on with my life, which is how this started..

 

[Lever]

I'm alright jack....

The best of the best of British brexiters living in Spain, highlights skip to...

2 min 41 sec & 6 min 4 secs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUErHV5T2_s

Yes.
The breezy disregard for people living in the UK is chilling.....

 

[nicko31]

Yes.
The breezy disregard for people living in the UK is chilling.....

The Scouser decided it was time to get out before he became a Brexit victim, the latter two will still be buying the Daily Mail on the Costa Del Sol...

 

[nicko31]

Brexit - the final defeat of honesty.


https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-and-the-final-defeat-of-honesty

Its a post truth, post shame world. I struggle to explain to my kids what is going on. Look at the US, look at Hungary, look at Turkey we still may sink lower yet

We are not finished until the liars, charlatans and their mates in the right wing press are fully exposed.

This fight is more than about Brexit, its about the future of our liberal, progressive democracy

 

[BLOCK F]

Genuine question....
Do you honestly believe that critical comments make matters worse? Would we all be better off in some way if no one says what a lot of us are thinking?

Hi Lever,
On an individual basis, I don't suppose critical comments make any difference at all, and as you know, I voted Remain. However, my main gripe is the mindset that keeps on going over and over things that have been decided, instead of accepting it and getting on with things as they are.
Yes, many regard it as a 'pisser' but to almost wish failure upon the country because of the Leave vote, just to be able to gloat and say 'I told you so', is plain daft.
I'm not saying every Remain voter feels like that but a number appear to do so and in that way, a collective negativity can gain momentum and spread doom and gloom as it gathers. Negativity in its various forms can spread through society, organisations, large and small, political parties, even football clubs and their supporters and it can have a corrosive effect; so perhaps to sum up, there ain't much wrong with critical comment, but when it goes beyond a certain point, perhaps it can do some harm!

 

[Lever]

TB, I very rarely post anymore about anything political, because the threads invariably become bad tempered and intolerant.
Yes, I took the time to post today, because I am fed up with the constant negativity surrounding Brexit.
My wife and I ,and indeed, my whole family voted to Remain, but the country voted to leave and so, being a pragmatist, we must get on with it!
I see little to be gained by going over old ground and I take exception to those who appear to almost will the country to fail ,just so they can say,'ya-boo, we told you so.'
As for those on the Left of the political spectrum, if Corbyn had actually taken an effective role in campaigning for Remain during the Referendum, then the outcome may have been different.
P.S.I hope the shingles is getting better!

I genuinely know no one who feels that way.... but you can't blame people who have tried so hard to stop this idiocy from feeling vindicated (as well as discomforted) when things begin to pan out the way they warned against....
It really isn't a case of talking the country down.

 

[BLOCK F]

And I don't need a hoity-toity smugly-superior type telling me to get on with my life, which is how this started..

Blimey Simster,
I may have been called a few things in my life, but I've never been called a hoity-toity smugly superior type, before.
Ah well, I suppose coming from a chippy bad tempered leftie like you, it could be worse!

 

[BLOCK F]

I'm almost better thank you. I think you will find the remainers on this thread are pointing out the faults because it's only four years to the next election.
It isn't a case of wanting the UK to fail but working towards getting rid of this lot and trying to reverse the decisions made. I don't want to be living under a racist Tory government where only the rich people matter. I will rebel against that for the rest of my natural.

I don't think there is a realistic chance of the Brexit decision being reversed anytime soon,unless the ghost of the Lib Dem Party can rise from the ashes under a leadership that can be taken seriously; and would anyone be voted as leader, on a campaigning ticket of reversing Brexit? Maybe, but I don't know.
I can understand you not wanting a Tory Government, so I do hope that the Labour Party comes to its senses and kicks out the far left idealogues who have all but destroyed the party in the eyes of the electorate, and it once again becomes the party of the centre left. Only then will it become electable. As a democrat, I have always believed that whatever the outcome of any General Election, it is important for the Government of the day to be held to account by a competent Opposition.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hi Lever,
On an individual basis, I don't suppose critical comments make any difference at all, and as you know, I voted Remain. However, my main gripe is the mindset that keeps on going over and over things that have been decided, instead of accepting it and getting on with things as they are.
Yes, many regard it as a 'pisser' but to almost wish failure upon the country because of the Leave vote, just to be able to gloat and say 'I told you so', is plain daft.
I'm not saying every Remain voter feels like that but a number appear to do so and in that way, a collective negativity can gain momentum and spread doom and gloom as it gathers. Negativity in its various forms can spread through society, organisations, large and small, political parties, even football clubs and their supporters and it can have a corrosive effect; so perhaps to sum up, there ain't much wrong with critical comment, but when it goes beyond a certain point, perhaps it can do some harm!

To be fair, the discussion on this thread was about the implications of the newly announced immigration policy, and what various ministers had been doing.

The discussion only turned away from that when [MENTION=17103]Mo Gosfield[/MENTION] and yourself started posting the 'Woe is me' and 'talking the country down', 'hoping Britain fails' posts

Maybe we should get back to discussing what the government is actually doing and it's implications because, as you rightly say, someone should hold them to account for their election (and Brexit) promises.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't think there is a realistic chance of the Brexit decision being reversed anytime soon,unless the ghost of the Lib Dem Party can rise from the ashes under a leadership that can be taken seriously; and would anyone be voted as leader, on a campaigning ticket of reversing Brexit? Maybe, but I don't know.
I can understand you not wanting a Tory Government, so I do hope that the Labour Party comes to its senses and kicks out the far left idealogues who have all but destroyed the party in the eyes of the electorate, and it once again becomes the party of the Left Centre. Only then will it become electable. As a democrat, I have always believed that whatever the outcome of General Elections, it is important for the Government of the day to be held to account by a competent Opposition.

I couldn't agree more and hope that Keir is elected. As an experienced barrister, he won't let anything get past him in the House.
The biggest problem is the press, like Murdoch, the Barclay brothers and Rothermere. Even now they are still churning out propaganda to keep the masses fooled.
Channel 4 is holding the government to account, but nobody is shouting for the Russia report, or the investigation into Acuri and her relationship when Johnson was mayor.

At the moment the great British public are still calling him (cuddly) Boris, even though he's missing in action again. He's constantly on holiday, leaving his aide to run the country.

 

[vegster]

I agree.
'We're doomed, I tell you, we're doomed'.
I voted Remain, but I am fed up with all the moaning and doomster talk. I get the impression from some on here that they want the country to go down the pan, just so they can say, we told you so and all those who voted Leave are thick morons.
For f---k's sake, give it a rest and get on with your lives!

For many, sadly, the country has already gone down the pan! Stagnant wage growth, crumbling infrastructure and roads and now increasing prices as it gets more expensive to pick, pack and deliver our own produce.

If you have a wage over £25 k pa you might be lucky enough to be able to get out if the EU reciprocate our immigration policy though. Still, Blue passports...

 

[BLOCK F]

To be fair, the discussion on this thread was about the implications of the newly announced immigration policy, and what various ministers had been doing.

The discussion only turned away from that when [MENTION=17103]Mo Gosfield[/MENTION] and yourself started posting the 'Woe is me' and 'talking the country down', 'hoping Britain fails' posts

Maybe we should get back to discussing what the government is actually doing and it's implications because, as you rightly say, someone should hold them to account for their election (and Brexit) promises.

Yes, I was making a general comment re the tone of much of the thread; however, fair comment.
My initial and superficial reaction to the immigration policy is, 'I think the hospitality, horticulture and care industries, for example, are going to face a lot of difficulties, especially so, in the short -term'.
From a purely personal perspective, my wife and I have met quite a few young people from around the world working in the hospitality industry and almost without exception, have been impressed by their work ethic, intelligence and positive outlook on life. We have kept in touch with quite a number via FB and several have either progressed up the ranks in their industry or have gone on to greater things and made the most of their qualifications(quite a few have degrees) and now have more lucrative employment.
I believe that without young people such as these, the country would be all the poorer. It remains to be seen whether or not our 'home grown' will take up the cudgels, so to speak.
A highly skilled and high wage economy is a fine aspiration, but it won't happen overnight!