[Politics] Brexit

[Stat Brother]

Leave Means - Not Leaving on the 31st October.

[tweet]1187626765944053760[/tweet]

 

[beorhthelm]

Why doesn’t the opposition want an election?

this is one view https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

i cant see Johnson being able to hold out for long though, as there needs to be a Budget and a Finance Bill at some point. so this is mainly to make Labour look bad before giving way.

 

[Bob!]

This really does show how ridiculous it all is. Johnson says 'if you don't agree to an election, I won't let you discuss my bill that I want passed'. So, he's saying to the opposition, who don't actually want an election just at the moment, 'you can only discuss my bill, that you don't want either, if you give me an election that you don't want at the moment'. Pure madness - why on earth would the opposition vote to have an election just so they can discuss a bill that they don't want passed anyway?

Especially as he can't actually guarantee a date in law anyway. Wouldn't put it past him to win a vote on having an election and then suddenly finding a reason that Parliament has to be dissolved immediately, so there won't be any debate.

You would begin to think that he doesn't actually want Brexit to happen! Oh - hang on, isn't that what he wrote in his alternative Times article......

Or to choose a date in February, meaning 'no deal' will have happened before the election.

 

[vegster]

Leave Means - Not Leaving on the 31st October.

[tweet]1187626765944053760[/tweet]

Poor old Sajid gets the shit end of the stick again and has to cover for Boris.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Current EEA rules and regs, yes we'd have to take them.

For the future ones, then genuine consensus needed.

See Yalland's excellent thread :

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1073867169723756544?s=19

And a summary ( which the sovereignty brexiteers can have no issues with, but the racist ones might grumble at ) :

https://twitter.com/huntsgreentom/status/1171897730115002371?s=19

I am not sure it is quite as simple as those tweets or your conclusions allude to:

Switzerland voluntarily adapts to EU laws from time to time

The Swiss relationship with the EU is different to Norway’s.

It’s also got a trading relationship through the European Free Trade Association, without being part of the European Economic Area.

This also involves taking on EU laws.

But instead of laws constantly flowing into its legal system, it negotiates new treaties or amends old ones in return for access to the single market and other EU activities.

Some of the important treaties are linked, so that if Switzerland or the EU pulls out of one, the others also collapse.

This system means that Switzerland doesn’t formally lack control over its own laws.

It’s under strain, though, after a Swiss referendum vote to cap immigration from the EU.

This has been criticised by the EU as against the rules of the treaty dealing with free movement of people, and led to the suspension of talks over cooperation in research funding.

There’s a lot of uncertainty about how to resolve this. News outlets report that the current Swiss deal with the EU could be under threat.

And the EU has previously said that it’s concerned about the way this system is working in general.

https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/

Again, I'd be happy with a Norway deal but many, many leavers of all shapes and sizes would find serious fault with a Swiss approach. This is certainly NOT the golden consensuses you keep making it out to be.

 

[SAC]

Why doesn’t the opposition want an election?

The Tory Party brought in the fixed term Parliaments act, presumably because they thought it good for them. Why would the opposition agree to an election when it isn't in their interests to have one.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I am not sure it is quite as simple as those tweets or your conclusions allude to:



Again, I'd be happy with a Norway deal but many, many leavers of all shapes and sizes would find serious fault with a Swiss approach. This is certainly NOT the golden consensuses you keep making it out to be.

I'm afraid there is nothing in the Norway deal for services, which as I pointed out earlier is 78% of Britain's GDP.

There really is only one way of getting a 'good deal' for Britain and that is to negotiate a bespoke one for Britain's Economy, GDP splits, historical and political implications etc etc. The deals that Canada, Norway and Switzerland have negotiated, over years, have been ones suited to them and their situations.

Maybe we need a bespoke deal a bit like the one that British Politicians of all political hues have spent the last 40 years negotiating

 

[The Rivet]

Because if it is run as a 'Brexit Election', they will suffer quite badly - as their votes will be split and Tories could romp home (depending on how much their vote splits with the BP). The only way they would 'win' is if there were to be a proper Lib/Lab pact of not standing in some seats to ensure the others got in.

Labour will fare far better when a General Election is held under proper circumstances, and focusing on domestic issues.

If there really is a desire to hold a 'Brexit Election', then we should have another referendum - then have a GE to decide which party should deliver the outcome (binding this time).

Told you before there will be a GE, NOT another referendum with rigged 'stay stay' choices. Yes it will be a 'Brexit' GE. Stupid to think otherwise.

 

[Hugo Rune]

And yet somehow, in the minds of many - it's all Corbyn's fault.

This is the sort of leaver rhetoric remainers are up against (copied and pasted from FB):

“A rough guide to why Brexit delays are all Corbyn's fault, and also why Brexit is all Corbyn's fault.

2007 LibDems call for EU Referendum
(first of the 3 main parties to do so - source Factcheck)
2010 LibDems back up Tories in coalition
2011 Coalition govt introduces and forces through the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.
2015 Tories win a majority promising a referendum. Parliament votes in favour of a referendum. Corbyn votes against.
2015 Corbyn is elected Labour leader
2016 The UK referendum occurs. Corbyn is criticised for not being fervent enough in his worship of the EU.
(It is clear that the best way to win over eurosceptics is NOT to say "I agree that there are some problems with the EU but, on the whole, they are dwarfed by the problems inherent in extricating ourselves from a 40 year involvement, right in the middle of an economic slump" but rather to take the line of "you're a racist and quite stupid if you don't adore the EU".)
Remain loses.
Cameron resigns, May is put in place.
Corbyn pitches for a soft Brexit deal.
2016 - 2017 - no effort is made by the government to reach parliamentary compromise over a form of Brexit. May begins announcing Red Lines and swearing she will not call a snap election.
2017 May calls a snap election, promising to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history.
May loses her majority.
Corbyn increases Labour's vote share on a pledge to negotiate a soft Brexit.
2017 - 2018 No effort is made to reach parliamentary compromise over a form of Brexit.
May negotiates a WA without consulting her own Cabinet or MPs.
2018 Parliament rejects May's WA. EU extends from March to October.
2019 May gets toppled.
The Tories indulge in a 6 week leadership election. Johnson wins on a platform of "I will deliver Brexit. I will not call an election."
MPs introduce the Benn Act to prevent No Deal.
Johnson sacks 21 Tory MPs, reducing his majority to -42
Johnson tries to call an election.
The Fixed Term Parliament Act (see previous Tory/LibDem cock-up) means his attempt fails.
Johnson attempts to prorogue parliament for 5 weeks.
This is deemed unlawful but wastes a week.
Johnson brings his deal to parliament, wins a third reading, but cannot win the programme motion to rush the bill through in 2 days, losing by 14 votes.
Rather than try and win through, Johnson pauses all progress of the bill with 10 days to Brexigeddon.

See, it's obvious. If only Labour had a different leader, none of this would be happening...”

 

[A1X]

This is the sort of leaver rhetoric remainers are up against (copied and pasted from FB):

“A rough guide to why Brexit delays are all Corbyn's fault, and also why Brexit is all Corbyn's fault.

2007 LibDems call for EU Referendum
(first of the 3 main parties to do so - source Factcheck)
2010 LibDems back up Tories in coalition
2011 Coalition govt introduces and forces through the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.
2015 Tories win a majority promising a referendum. Parliament votes in favour of a referendum. Corbyn votes against.
2015 Corbyn is elected Labour leader
2016 The UK referendum occurs. Corbyn is criticised for not being fervent enough in his worship of the EU.
(It is clear that the best way to win over eurosceptics is NOT to say "I agree that there are some problems with the EU but, on the whole, they are dwarfed by the problems inherent in extricating ourselves from a 40 year involvement, right in the middle of an economic slump" but rather to take the line of "you're a racist and quite stupid if you don't adore the EU".)
Remain loses.
Cameron resigns, May is put in place.
Corbyn pitches for a soft Brexit deal.
2016 - 2017 - no effort is made by the government to reach parliamentary compromise over a form of Brexit. May begins announcing Red Lines and swearing she will not call a snap election.
2017 May calls a snap election, promising to consign Corbyn to the dustbin of history.
May loses her majority.
Corbyn increases Labour's vote share on a pledge to negotiate a soft Brexit.
2017 - 2018 No effort is made to reach parliamentary compromise over a form of Brexit.
May negotiates a WA without consulting her own Cabinet or MPs.
2018 Parliament rejects May's WA. EU extends from March to October.
2019 May gets toppled.
The Tories indulge in a 6 week leadership election. Johnson wins on a platform of "I will deliver Brexit. I will not call an election."
MPs introduce the Benn Act to prevent No Deal.
Johnson sacks 21 Tory MPs, reducing his majority to -42
Johnson tries to call an election.
The Fixed Term Parliament Act (see previous Tory/LibDem cock-up) means his attempt fails.
Johnson attempts to prorogue parliament for 5 weeks.
This is deemed unlawful but wastes a week.
Johnson brings his deal to parliament, wins a third reading, but cannot win the programme motion to rush the bill through in 2 days, losing by 14 votes.
Rather than try and win through, Johnson pauses all progress of the bill with 10 days to Brexigeddon.

See, it's obvious. If only Labour had a different leader, none of this would be happening...”

I notice you missed that Corbyn called for Article 50 to be triggered the day after the referendum result.

 

[KZNSeagull]

EU say there will be an extension, they just cannot agree for how long. Decision delayed until Monday.

 

[sparkie]

EU say there will be an extension, they just cannot agree for how long. Decision delayed until Monday.

Great news. No need to worry about crash out Brexit next Thursday then.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This, from today's BBC news online, just about sums up the whole wretched mess IMHO:

'Marie Lebec, a member of the French National Assembly representing President Emmanuel Macron's En Marche party, said France would only agree to a delay if it was sure it was not an "extension for nothing".

"What we need from the UK is really to know what they want," she told the Today programme'

Same as it ever was throughout this painfully protracted prosess, Parliament remains resolutely unclear on what it wants. It only ever knows what it doesn't want. An object lesson in negativity. Rip it up and start again. General Election can't come soon enough.

 

[KZNSeagull]

This, from today's BBC news online, just about sums up the whole wretched mess IMHO:

'Marie Lebec, a member of the French National Assembly representing President Emmanuel Macron's En Marche party, said France would only agree to a delay if it was sure it was not an "extension for nothing".

"What we need from the UK is really to know what they want," she told the Today programme'

Same as it ever was throughout this painfully protracted prosess, Parliament remains resolutely unclear on what it wants. It only ever knows what it doesn't want. An object lesson in negativity. Rip it up and start again. General Election can't come soon enough.

Which will be fun as BJ has the worst ratings for a PM in their first 3 months and JC has the worst ratings for an opposition leader ever.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This, from today's BBC news online, just about sums up the whole wretched mess IMHO:

'Marie Lebec, a member of the French National Assembly representing President Emmanuel Macron's En Marche party, said France would only agree to a delay if it was sure it was not an "extension for nothing".

"What we need from the UK is really to know what they want," she told the Today programme'

Same as it ever was throughout this painfully protracted prosess, Parliament remains resolutely unclear on what it wants. It only ever knows what it doesn't want. An object lesson in negativity. Rip it up and start again. General Election can't come soon enough.

Do you really think that is going to resolve anything

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Which will be fun as BJ has the worst ratings for a PM in their first 3 months and JC has the worst ratings for an opposition leader ever.

And don't forget the dopey Lib Dems with their keynote 'Lets Just Cancel The Whole Brexit Thing' keynote policy.

Maybe The Seagulls Party should reform and SWOOP into this godawful power vacuum

 

[Stat Brother]

Which will be fun as BJ has the worst ratings for a PM in their first 3 months and JC has the worst ratings for an opposition leader ever.

What could possibly go wrong...








...oh.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This, from today's BBC news online, just about sums up the whole wretched mess IMHO:

'Marie Lebec, a member of the French National Assembly representing President Emmanuel Macron's En Marche party, said France would only agree to a delay if it was sure it was not an "extension for nothing".

"What we need from the UK is really to know what they want," she told the Today programme'

Same as it ever was throughout this painfully protracted prosess, Parliament remains resolutely unclear on what it wants. It only ever knows what it doesn't want. An object lesson in negativity. Rip it up and start again. General Election can't come soon enough.

One of the French ministers (I can't recall her name) got a new cat which she called Brexit. She opens the door but the cat can't decided whether to go out or come in.
(cat owners will be familiar with this behaviour)


Imo, a general election will result in a hung parliament which will result in more procrastination and delays.

 

[Bodian]

This, from today's BBC news online, just about sums up the whole wretched mess IMHO:

'Marie Lebec, a member of the French National Assembly representing President Emmanuel Macron's En Marche party, said France would only agree to a delay if it was sure it was not an "extension for nothing".

"What we need from the UK is really to know what they want," she told the Today programme'

Same as it ever was throughout this painfully protracted prosess, Parliament remains resolutely unclear on what it wants. It only ever knows what it doesn't want. An object lesson in negativity. Rip it up and start again. General Election can't come soon enough.

Parliament as a whole would have passed through a soft Brexit ages ago. And probably would do so now, if Johnson allowed it to actually debate the bill.

 

[vegster]

I notice you missed that Corbyn called for Article 50 to be triggered the day after the referendum result.

I think you will find in those distant, simpler times it was the logical thing to do or else be branded as someone... oh, you know the rest.....